Best material for building durable truck mounts.

[ronbeatty]

Why do some manufacturers use aluminum instead of stainless steel for waste tanks, frame, etc. The labor to build it is the same regardless of the material used. Is this a planned obsolescence calculation, weight issue or just cheaper to build. Outside of a couple Hydramaster Aquacats I have never purchased a unit that did not have at least a stainless steel waste tank. Just asking???

 

[Mike Draper]

Lets talk about cutting corners. Here is a blue line thermalwave 2. Instead of building an aluminum Box to hold the coolant HX, they used steel. In mass production this aluminum box would have been cheap to make. Take a look at it. The HX is coverved in rust from the box deteriorating. All this rust has been pumping through the water pump day in and day out. IMO, they do this for 2 reasons, to make an extra buck of profit and because they dgas how your machine is holding up 5-6 years down the road. They want you to purchase another one. And of course the waste tank is aluminum.

 

[dealtimeman]

I think there is a couple of factors at play at least. First is weight savings, second generally aluminum is cheape, third is it is easier to fabricate as aluminum is easier to weld. Fourth is it won't rust not even surface rust but will get eaten by electrolysis.

I don't like the use of aluminum for truck mounts but most of the time you will be just fine with enough care. Problem lies there in that most users don't care.

 

[Mikey P]

Want to see my video of me washing my 370 tank out?

 

[dealtimeman]

We already have a Saiger are you trying to compete with mark?

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Want to see my video of me washing my 370 tank out?

Yes!
Weekly please

 

[GeneMiller]

I put 18k hrs on that coolant hx with no problems. Engines have been made from cast iron for ever. The thing about antifreeze is the properties that stop it from freezing never go away. The anti rust properties however degrade with time. Most guys don't change it the way they should. By the way the rusty water is only going through the engine.

 

[Mike Draper]

I'll take a picture of the old water pump tomorrow.

 

[Able 1]

Still not sure what the problem is to build a frame out of aluminum? I have 4 10 year old or older Prochems and see no reason not to use an aluminum frame..

Your are right with waste tanks though, they should all be stainless!

 

[Able 1]

Here is a Prochem that I'm working on.. All the HE'ers are shot, I'm going with propane heat for this one..

 

[Able 1]

Stainless would be great,but I haven't had a problem yet with aluminum.. Ask again in 10 years..

 

[Scott S.]

Lets talk about cutting corners. Here is a blue line thermalwave 2. Instead of building an aluminum Box to hold the coolant HX, they used steel. In mass production this aluminum box would have been cheap to make. Take a look at it. The HX is coverved in rust from the box deteriorating. All this rust has been pumping through the water pump day in and day out. IMO, they do this for 2 reasons, to make an extra buck of profit and because they dgas how your machine is holding up 5-6 years down the road. They want you to purchase another one. And of course the waste tank is aluminum.View attachment 9088

ok, i have some input on this. (manufacturing experience of 13+ years dealing with alum, stainless, exotics, etc.)

stainless steel is not impervious to rust. but at normal temperatures and conditions (atmospheric, not high heat) it will not rust. but at high temperatures with products that are poorly formulated and do not provide enough corrosion inhibiting agents stainless steel will rust, degrade, and or become brittle. aluminum will degrade faster then stainless and has far far less strength at high temperatures.
aluminum waste tanks are ment to be rinsed out often, same with stainless, you need an anode of zinc attached to the inside of your waste tank to sacrifice the corrosion onto instead of your tank if your using high ph products often.

as far as heat exchangers go, its better its made of steel then aluminum. descaling will remove a fair bit of rust if done often and properly. if your in a hard water area your should decale often, like every 3-6 months depending upon hardness, if your in a softer water area at least once a year.

descaling will remove some rust, but not years of neglect. if done often and properly it will keep you heat exchanges working at peak temps and reduce the amount of scale you find.. heating the water to high temps actually promotes scale, so decale often and neutralize once your done.

 

[realclean]

Scott, will you please give me the proper way to descale and where to get a zinc anode to go into a aluminum tank.

 

[Mike Draper]

My water pump

 

[Mark Saiger]

ok, i have some input on this. (manufacturing experience of 13+ years dealing with alum, stainless, exotics, etc.)

stainless steel is not impervious to rust. but at normal temperatures and conditions (atmospheric, not high heat) it will not rust. but at high temperatures with products that are poorly formulated and do not provide enough corrosion inhibiting agents stainless steel will rust, degrade, and or become brittle. aluminum will degrade faster then stainless and has far far less strength at high temperatures.
aluminum waste tanks are ment to be rinsed out often, same with stainless, you need an anode of zinc attached to the inside of your waste tank to sacrifice the corrosion onto instead of your tank if your using high ph products often.

as far as heat exchangers go, its better its made of steel then aluminum. descaling will remove a fair bit of rust if done often and properly. if your in a hard water area your should decale often, like every 3-6 months depending upon hardness, if your in a softer water area at least once a year.

descaling will remove some rust, but not years of neglect. if done often and properly it will keep you heat exchanges working at peak temps and reduce the amount of scale you find.. heating the water to high temps actually promotes scale, so decale often and neutralize once your done.

Nice post Scott

Thanks!

 

[GeneMiller]

My water pump

View attachment 9239

Looks more like a coolant problem. Left it in to long.

Gene

 

[Cleanworks]

I have an aluminum waste tank that was manufactured in 1984. 3/16 marine grade aluminum with interior baffles made by a local tm manufactured. It has been in three different cleaning units and hasn't corroded appreciably yet. Sure, technically aluminum corrodes but have you ever seen an aluminum boat corroded to point where it wears through? Doesn't happen. If you are using something with a high enough ph to corrode your tank, I would hate to see what to rest of you looks like.

 

[Scott S.]

I have an aluminum waste tank that was manufactured in 1984. 3/16 marine grade aluminum with interior baffles made by a local tm manufactured. It has been in three different cleaning units and hasn't corroded appreciably yet. Sure, technically aluminum corrodes but have you ever seen an aluminum boat corroded to point where it wears through? Doesn't happen. If you are using something with a high enough ph to corrode your tank, I would hate to see what to rest of you looks like.

So here is where aluminum left outside is differant than aluminum exposed to high ph products are differant.

Aluminum left outside will oxidize enough that it actually protects itself and stops exposing the aluminum, and just has the oxidized aluminum as a "shell" of protection.

Aluminum exposed to heat, and high or low ph products will constantly get this layer of oxidized aluminum stripped off, letting the aluminum oxidize over and over and over again.

brass, copper both have this same aspect of self preservation, and it helps protect them over time. that is why the statue of liberty isnt golden in color, because they let the oxidation take hold and keep it from getting damaged further from acid rain, pollution, smog, etc.

alot of the newer aluminum is actually stronger, and more resistant to corrosion/ oxidation due to the fact that alot of aluminum is now heat treated which makes them more dense.

 

[hurricanecc]

Lets talk about cutting corners. Here is a blue line thermalwave 2. Instead of building an aluminum Box to hold the coolant HX, they used steel. In mass production this aluminum box would have been cheap to make. Take a look at it. The HX is coverved in rust from the box deteriorating. All this rust has been pumping through the water pump day in and day out. IMO, they do this for 2 reasons, to make an extra buck of profit and because they dgas how your machine is holding up 5-6 years down the road. They want you to purchase another one. And of course the waste tank is aluminum.View attachment 9088

Lets talk about cutting corners. Here is a blue line thermalwave 2. Instead of building an aluminum Box to hold the coolant HX, they used steel. In mass production this aluminum box would have been cheap to make. Take a look at it. The HX is coverved in rust from the box deteriorating. All this rust has been pumping through the water pump day in and day out. IMO, they do this for 2 reasons, to make an extra buck of profit and because they dgas how your machine is holding up 5-6 years down the road. They want you to purchase another one. And of course the waste tank is aluminum.View attachment 9088

I had to replace mine when it sprung a leak, what an unbelievable PIA to get it out in the first place.

 

[Cleanworks]

Did it spring a leak because it was poorly made or because it wore through. Every tm I have ever owned has had aluminum waste tanks. Never had a problem. Aluminum frames and tanks are lighter and very strong and more resistant to stress cracks due to vibration. There are different grades of aluminum, maybe some manufacturers are using cheap stuff

 

[hurricanecc]

Did it spring a leak because it was poorly made or because it wore through. Every tm I have ever owned has had aluminum waste tanks. Never had a problem. Aluminum frames and tanks are lighter and very strong and more resistant to stress cracks due to vibration. There are different grades of aluminum, maybe some manufacturers are using cheap stuff

The copper chaffed inside against the coil plate that kept them in line

 

[Cleanworks]

ok, i have some input on this. (manufacturing experience of 13+ years dealing with alum, stainless, exotics, etc.)

stainless steel is not impervious to rust. but at normal temperatures and conditions (atmospheric, not high heat) it will not rust. but at high temperatures with products that are poorly formulated and do not provide enough corrosion inhibiting agents stainless steel will rust, degrade, and or become brittle. aluminum will degrade faster then stainless and has far far less strength at high temperatures.
aluminum waste tanks are ment to be rinsed out often, same with stainless, you need an anode of zinc attached to the inside of your waste tank to sacrifice the corrosion onto instead of your tank if your using high ph products often.

as far as heat exchangers go, its better its made of steel then aluminum. descaling will remove a fair bit of rust if done often and properly. if your in a hard water area your should decale often, like every 3-6 months depending upon hardness, if your in a softer water area at least once a year.

descaling will remove some rust, but not years of neglect. if done often and properly it will keep you heat exchanges working at peak temps and reduce the amount of scale you find.. heating the water to high temps actually promotes scale, so decale often and neutralize once your done.

You only need a zinc anode where you have dissimilar metals. On an aluminum boat, we put a zinc on the motor leg because it is steel and the zinc will absorb the electrolysis instead of the steel or aluminum. I don't think you need one in an aluminum waste tank

 

[Scott S.]

You only need a zinc anode where you have dissimilar metals. On an aluminum boat, we put a zinc on the motor leg because it is steel and the zinc will absorb the electrolysis instead of the steel or aluminum. I don't think you need one in an aluminum waste tank

ok, if you want to believe you don't need one that's fine. Just remember boats with fiber glass hulls still have these anodes on alumimum parts also, because the salt creates the Electrolysis, our cleaners have salt or a form of salt in them.

 

[Cleanworks]

ok, if you want to believe you don't need one that's fine. Just remember boats with fiber glass hulls still have these anodes on alumimum parts also, because the salt creates the Electrolysis, our cleaners have salt or a form of salt in them.

Boats with fibreglass hulls put a zinc anode on the engine leg because it is steel and other parts of the boat may be aluminum (trim tabs) or brass (thru hulls) the salt water acts as an electrolite causing an electric current between the disimilar metals causing corrosion. If you have brass or steel as part of your waste tank, yes a zinc anode will help. If it's just aluminum you won't need it. My aluminum portable has brass fittings and has no visible signs of corrosion. It is 5 years old. I'm not saying that it's not a good precaution but in my experience with aluminum over the last 30 years, I have never found it necessary

 

[Larry Cobb]

alot of the newer aluminum is actually stronger, and more resistant to corrosion/ oxidation due to the fact that alot of aluminum is now heat treated which makes them more dense.

We build most of our recovery tanks from 6061-T6 aluminum sheet. It is a heat-treated alloy used on many aircraft for its high strength.

Many of our 6061 aluminum TM tanks are 30 years old and still operating today. Lockhart had some that are now probably over 20 years old.

Electrolysis between dissimilar metals can corrode aluminum and we sometimes see this between a bare steel van floor and the outside of an aluminum tank bottom.

We also built some recovery tanks and fresh water tanks from 304 stainless steel. The disadvantage with stainless tanks is that the wall thickness is thinner for weight considerations.

That requires more welded bracing for high vacuum levels required of modern TM's.

The welded bracing creates stress points where the thinner metal meets the rigid bracing.

Continuous flexing at the bracing can create cracks in the weld zone of the thinner stainless skin.

So, either material can develop problems depending on the actual design.

P.S. we recommend a marine zinc anode in the float tanks of our TMs.
Any marine supply will have them.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

My mytee roto mold tanks will never leak and never smell. no problems, Thanks Larry. jz

 

[Scott S.]

My mytee roto mold tanks will never leak and never smell. no problems, Thanks Larry. jz

never smell, i though they would be the opposite because of all the ribs that the dirty water can sit on even after you drain the tank, is it hard to rinse?

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

No problem I clean my tanks and filter after every job. The roto mold has 3 tanks and after each time I remove the middle or the last tank and fill and flush. My tanks are over 5 years and no problem, and also tanks for asking, jz.