Beware of the Blue Baron

[Newman]

Who else has had a less than satisfactory experience dealing with Mr. Peter Garland, manufacture of heat exchangers and the Blue Baron Truckmount? Read this mans ebay listing. Are we alone?

Description of item by ebay member m_hose:

I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE NEW ABOUT 2 MONTHS AGO. VERY DISAPPOINTED IN THE MACHINE. I WAS MISLEAD ON THIS MACHINE. DOES NOT CARRY THE HEAT I REQUIRE FOR MY CLEANING. I WAS TOLD AND HIS WEBSITE SAID IT WOULD CARRY 230 DEGREE TEMPTATURE ALL DAY LONG. WELL IT DOESN'T. TRIED TO WORK A DEAL WITH THE INDIVIDUAL I BOUGHT IT FROM, BUT HE DOES NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME. HE MAKES EXCUSES FOR HIS MACHINE AND TRIES TO PUT THE BLAME ON YOU. HE WOULD HAVE GOT A NEGATIVE FEED BACK FROM ME, BUT I PURCHASED WITH A CASHIERS CHECK RATHER THAN THROUGH E-BAY. THE MACHINE HAS 3.5 HOURS ON IT AND I HOPE SOMEONE WILL TAKE IT OFF MY HANDS. YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF CHECKING OUT HIS WEBSITE AT WWW.BLUEBARONMACHINES.COM BECAUSE IT SURE IS HARD FOR ME TO SELL SOMETHING I DON'T BELIEVE IN. I GAVE 9795 FOR IT AND NEED AT LEAST 8000 TO FEEL HALF WAY GOOD ABOUT MY BAD INVESTMENT. I WILL SHIP IT TO YOU, BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230328113646&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

 

[Curtis Pennington]

Intresting BUT I like to hear BOTH sides of the story then I make a descision....

 

[XTREME1]

It only has 3.5 hrs on it you didn't even give it a chance to flow through the system. Run it for a few days at your house and then see if it is what you want. Your never going to sell it telling everyone that they can buy your problem for $8,000. 3.5 hrs maybe the Baron will buy it back and resell it


oops that isn't your listing sorry. What is your experience?

 

[CleanEvo]

Never heard of Blue Baron... anyone else have one?

 

[Guest]

There isnt a truckmount that size that will sustain 230 with heat exchange,almost all manufacturers hype up their stuff.What it means is it can reach 230,whether it can hold it is another story.

 

[FB7777]

The website states that the machine can reach temperatures up to 230+ not maintain that temperature.


SHould have gone with a propane unit like Judson for around that price point and heat requirement.

 

[Greenie]

Not to be a negative ass, but sometimes I have to ask carpet cleaners wtf did you expect for $10K? And I also want to ask did you make it through 9th grade, cause it takes X amount of energy to boil X amount of water in one minute, there is no magic to this game, why to cleaners always seek the impossible and expect it at a discount rate? They scold THEIR customers for the exact same thing when it comes to Bait and Switch and coupon competitors yet bite the same hook when looking for equipment.


for the dude who made this post, if your heat is your only bitch, then add a small propane heater and keep on trucking, and make your next purchase with a little more research....you managed to find Mikeys, you will be fine from here on out.

 

[Bob Savage]

Well, the owner of this particular Blue Barron had a Powermatic with kero heat. Those kero burners do put out the heat. So I see why he may be a little short in the heat department.

Add a Little Giant, and move on.

 

[hogjowl]

Thank you Bob for not being an ass like Greenie.

 

[Greenie]

I prefaced my ass comment with not to be an ass, therefor I am not.

so there.

 

[Curtis Pennington]

I prefaced my ass comment with not to be an ass, therefor I am not.

so there.

Are you sure?

 

[Chris A]

Every TM manufacturer in the world gives unsustainable heat numbers. Your surprised?

 

[CleanEvo]

Every TM manufacturer in the world gives unsustainable heat numbers. Your surprised?

My Prochem Blazer XL does exactly what the manufacturere said it will do.

 

[The Magician]

I see alot of problems with this machine

 

[Guest]

Does this 'Newman' guy still post here?

I thought he bought a TM from Blue Baron that he wasn't happy with, then I hear he only bought a HX from the guy and couldn't install it so he wanted his money back?

 

[Ron Werner]

Every TM manufacturer in the world gives unsustainable heat numbers. Your surprised?

My Prochem Blazer XL does exactly what the manufacturere said it will do.

Is that good or bad?

 

[Chris A]

Every TM manufacturer in the world gives unsustainable heat numbers. Your surprised?

My Prochem Blazer XL does exactly what the manufacturere said it will do.

160 at the mount?

 

[Bjorn]

3.5 hours is not enough time to work out any bugs in any system

 

[Greenie]

Does this 'Newman' guy still post here?

I thought he bought a TM from Blue Baron that he wasn't happy with, then I hear he only bought a HX from the guy and couldn't install it so he wanted his money back?

If you had to buy an aftermarket HX, it damn sure wouldn't be a blue barron HX....have you actually looked at one?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Every TM manufacturer in the world gives unsustainable heat numbers. Your surprised?

Not me.

When I tell you, you'll get "X" degrees, I state at what flow rate and mention pressure and jet size just to be clear.

Any boiler system (propane or oil- fired) we make will give you 230 to 240 degrees, at the wand, at 1.8 GPM, regardless of season. (In other words, in Wintertime, with the system reading 600 PSI and a number 6 jet size or equivalent in the wand.)

Some will do 265 ATW, with 2 wands running simultaneously, under the conditions I mentioned above...

Ask me a question about heat of a specific system we make, and I'll be as clear in my reply as I was just now in the above.

 

[Bjorn]

might just need a right handed screw driver to fix the problem

or could just be a O ring

 

[Chris A]

[quote="Chris Adkins":1dhzkwjg]Every TM manufacturer in the world gives unsustainable heat numbers. Your surprised?

Not me.

When I tell you, you'll get "X" degrees, I state at what flow rate and mention pressure and jet size just to be clear.

Any boiler system (propane or oil- fired) we make will give you 230 to 240 degrees, at the wand, at 1.8 GPM, regardless of season. (In other words, in Wintertime, with the system reading 600 PSI and a number 6 jet size or equivalent in the wand.)

Some will do 265 ATW, with 2 wands running simultaneously, under the conditions I mentioned above...

Ask me a question about heat of a specific system we make, and I'll be as clear in my reply as I was just now in the above.[/quote:1dhzkwjg]

So what will your HX systems maintain Duane?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Currently, the Xcel with a 20 Kohler and 36 Roots DSL maintains 160 at the wand, at 600 PSI, through an 06 or equivalent. (What I should probably do is quote the way others do, at the machine, but that's not been my way of doing things, because ATW is "where it's at". Temperature at the machine would indicate about 20 to 30 degrees higher.)

The Xcel does not use engine exhaust for the pre-heat exchanger-tank and the exhaust coming out the front of the system is still, "hot". I've been focused on keeping it out of a league that makes it compete directly with the Nemesis, and I've been thinking of making an upgrade available that routes engine exhaust through as well. With that upgrade, I'm pretty sure that the temperature could be boosted another 20 to 30 degrees.


The Nemesis is under revision. Last in- depth evaluation delivered 203 at the wand under the above- stated conditions, using a Kohler 25 and a Tuthill 4005 as heat sources. That was summer- time performance and the temperature fluctuated plus or minus about 10 degrees during operation. Wintertime performance caused a drop in output to 170 degrees, plus or minus 10 during operation, which was not acceptable for the Nemesis, therefore, prompting the revision.

Part of the revision being made has to do with making the stainless steel exchanger tank a hybrid of stainless and copper. Previously, it took the system 15 minutes to pre-heat the tank to the desired 140 degrees, from an input of 55 degrees. With the copper tubes, that time required should be much shorter. How much shorter, I have no direct answer at this point, but it seems reasonable that it would be almost instantaneous by comparison to the 15 minutes, since copper is 28 times more conductive, temperature- wise, than 304 stainless. Another part of the revision has to do with going to belt- drive on the Nemesis (not the Xcel), in order to be able to use over- driving the blower (which makes it run hotter and increases airflow at the same time) as another way to tweak the output temperature.

If we can get the exchanger- tank to maintain 120 degrees of temperature (allowing for a fluctuation from 140), then the output temperature of the system should increase by 30 degrees, easily, resulting in a net of 230 Summertime / 200 Wintertime, ATW. But there is limited BTU to work with, so only time will tell. However, by going to a 30 Kohler and 47 blower, or, over- driving a 45 and staying with a 27 Kohler, there is tweaking possible that I plan to investigate between now and next Spring.

I'll be satisfied, when the system exhaust is actually cool when it's in "heat mode", that I've done all I can. And we're far from that.

Now that I've included heat exchange technology in my focus of system design, I am seeing things, in terms of opportunity, that I wouldn't have seen otherwise. And I have a few ideas that I know are as unique as the exchanger- tank concept, that will boost output even more. So, regarding what the ultimate outcome will be, I'm very optimistic, but only time will tell.

In the meantime, there are 3 Xcel's out cleaning every day and the customers are tickled with them. So we're off to a good start...

 

[floorguy]

dude #6 come on, get with it...10 at minimum...

my stair tool has a 6 flow

 

[Duane Oxley]

dude #6 come on, get with it...10 at minimum...

my stair tool has a 6 flow

Hey, I'm a "heat freak", too, so I hear where you're coming from, but...

An 06 is still the most commonly used size in the industry. As a result, it's the one we use for evaluation purposes.

If you want 10 or more, you can spend $20,000 plus accessories on a HX system, or go to propane or oil- fired. Your choice.

 

[floorguy]

to get really high heat with flow, you need a little of both...

I have one of them screamin propane fired ones...but with a 15 flow and 50 degree water comin in, it gets a bit tough to really throw the heat... Now when i can hook into a hot water source, IE an empty, restaruant etc, i can get the heat. Or i can blow through my propane like no other (2 different jet settings)

or if i use a wand or hydro force, with a smaller jetting size..

I know exactly what i am looking for or want, that would be the perfect match...just gotta wait for the $$ to be there...lol

 

[Duane Oxley]

You and a lot of others, with the economy bogging people down the way it has been...

By the way, I have been planning to do a hybrid system as some have suggested, using an exchanger-tank from an Xcel and a propane heater. Using a Little Giant #3, it would yield boiler- like heat. Using a boiler, it would reduce propane costs. That would give you, "a little of both"...

 

[Newman]

Does this 'Newman' guy still post here?

I thought he bought a TM from Blue Baron that he wasn't happy with, then I hear he only bought a HX from the guy and couldn't install it so he wanted his money back?

Josh, I originally started this post fishing for anyone else here who may have done business with Blue Baron's Peter Garland. I found this guy attempting to off his new unit on ebay, thought I may not be alone, and dragged it over here. I learned that no informed CCr's who access this wealth of info at MB would be fool enough, as I was, to purchase anything from Blue Baron Truck Mounts.

I could have hacked up my Performer, hacked up the HX Blue Baron sent me, and installed it in my 405. Then I would have a hack job machine, and I am not a hack! :roll:

If you had to buy an aftermarket HX, it damn sure wouldn't be a blue barron HX....have you actually looked at one?

Yes Greenie, I am the idiot who bought a HX from Blue Baron on Ebay for $795. I was in the CC biz for only 6 months at the time and did not know any better. Peter Garland claimed he could make an HX to fit in my Performer 405 and I believed him. The HX he built, even though I sent him my OEM HX as a template, did not even fit into the 405 chassis. It also has many other issues rendering it unusable in my sweet 1900 hour Performer 405 project.

After many months, Peter Garland finally agreed to the following:

9/13/09

Quote: Peter Garland
Message to Chris Newman: I will give you a full REFUND for the $795 and $35 shipping total of $830. I will not refund you for the cost of packaging / Shipping of your other Prochem Heater you sent me.

Newman: Sounds good to me. I will ship the HX off to you ASAP.

Quote: Peter Garland
This refund is under the following conditions:

Return the Heater for full inspection (Standard Industry Policy)

Newman: The HX has not been altered or damaged in any way. I will ship the HX back to you and trust you to refund my $830 after you receive the HX.

Quote: Peter Garland
Removal of your Slandering.

Newman: Definition of slander:
1 : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation
2 : a false and defamatory oral statement about a person

I contest I have not slandered in the slightest bit, yet I will agree to remove my experience with you which I conveyed, after you have refunded $830.

As a measure of good faith, My ad on Ebay selling the HX will be removed upon your acknowledgement.

Quote: Peter Garland
I would like to move on as I am sure we have better things to do.

Thanks for your consideration in this matter, Sincerely Peter Garland

Newman: Amen brother!

A month has passed and Peter garland has chosen not to honor his word and send me a refund. I have a Blue Baron Buyers Guide for sale on ebay now:

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