Bishop vs. Werner (CRI) Faceoff @ Connections

[Larry Cobb]

I attended the CRI seminar at Connections and took photos of many charts and confrontations.

Here is one of Jeff & Werner in the Q & A session:

Jeff was most irritated at the CRI SOA Service Provider program.
(since it competes with IICRC)

Quotes from Jeff's letter to Werner:

Moreover, why does the CRI feel the need to compete with and undermine the industry-recognized, non-profit IICRC?
........
Moreover, I fail to understand why CRI SOA Equipment Testing Program managers have not implemented changes that we all have agreed should be made.

Lisa W. & Tony W. also asked questions concerning the testing program.

Larry

P.S. More photos to follow

 

[bob vawter]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

we want bunny ears........!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

So........I assume Jeff was SELF appointed, or did someone vote for him to represent them?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

http://www.icsmag.com/Articles/Blog/BNP ... 0000909246

 

[The Great Oz]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

Unfortunately, Jeff isn't angry about the CRI trying to force us to pay to be part of their program. He's angry that they're not forcing us to be part of the IICRC program, which would mean more income for IICRC trainers.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

This was one graphic that Werner put up, that was indicative of the problems that ALL cleaners face.
CRI is the only group that has the clout to combat this issue.

That 28% number is one that both cleaners and CRI need to work together to bring up.

I had discussions with Werner and Carey Mitchell after the meeting.

Werner indicated that Rug Doctor has agreed to further testing.

I also talked to him and Jeff (marketing @ CRI) about the out-of-date pH limits that keep the best products for cleaning and spotting out of their testing program.

I talked to Carey quite a bit about the oil being left out of the testing protocol.
One problem is the fact that some oils oxidize, and become more difficult to remove after time.
He also talked about the difficulty of even & consistent application.
I asked about radio-labeled oil that Shell chemical had used previously,
and he stated that it was too costly.

While I disagree with their SOA testing, communication is the best way to change it.

Larry

 

[truckmount girl]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

Unfortunately, Jeff isn't angry about the CRI trying to force us to pay to be part of their program. He's angry that they're not forcing us to be part of the IICRC program, which would mean more income for IICRC trainers.

BINGO!

Take care,
Lisa

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

They actually make a cute couple...

Lisa

P.S. CRI exclusively requiring IICRC certified firms would be a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Act. Won't happen.

 

[sweendogg]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

so is a carpet mill strictly mandating CRI SOA approved products as well!

 

[TimP]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

I'm not renewing my IICRC credentials. I wonder how many other cleaners are doing the same? In fact they expire this month.

And I wont be adding any certifications by any other group unless they actually do something for me that gets me more work. I see both IICRC and CRI as a nothing more than a leach on our industry that does nothing to help it or at least very little.

 

[bob vawter]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

It IS rather entertaining to have been RIGHT for over 40 years.................
















OK...who wants some bunny ears?

 

[The Great Oz]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

CRI exclusively requiring IICRC certified firms would be a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Act. Won't happen.

That's why they're now going the sneaky route pioneered by Greenseal. (Listen to Rick Gelinas' audio to hear Werner Braun mention inroads made in California.)
They want to get building owners and government agencies to require SoA to get around the law and force you to join their association.

Probably time for us to actively educate our customers about these outside organizations that try to force us to give them money.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Re: Bishop vs. Werner Faceoff @ Connections

Bryan;

I am very glad they are promoting SOA over Green Seal !!!

Green Seal certification eliminates hundreds of raw materials ...
not because they are hazardous ...
but because no one has the incentive to do expensive biodegradability studies on them.

CRI is the ONLY organization with enough clout to match up with Green Seal's political machine.

Bottom line is that CRI SOA will cost you much less,
than Green Seal will extract from your profit.

Green Seal wanted you to clean carpet & rugs with COLD water to save energy.

Larry Cobb
Cobb Carpet Supply

 

[Ryan]

I will only use a chemical if its *** certified.

 

[Ron Werner]

If the CRI SOA wasn't a bunch of BS I wouldn't mind being a part of it. There is a LOT about it that needs to be fixed before it will be of any real-world worth.
I still don't understand why they are even considering Rug Dr. Professionals will never use one, so why bother. Its a rental machine.

 

[The Great Oz]

I definitely will give the CRI points for calling Greenseal out, but by then adopting similar tactics they walk in the same mud.

I made a point to complement chemical producers at Connections that were promoting their products that comply with the EPA's DFE program. Smarter program all around and it doesn't cost you extra to subsidize a marketing/lobbying program.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Sounds like self defense, they burned Greenseal as a diversion.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Bryan;

DFE is a great program our government is running. :roll:

There is only one problem with DFE.

All the formulas have to be given to a government agency for analysis.

I am a little concerned over the confidentiality and security issue.

Larry

 

[The Great Oz]

Pretty simple to do an analysis to determine what and how much is in a particular mix so I'm not sure if there are many secrets between manufacturers. I seem to remember hearing that the government is no longer going to allow manufacturers to use the word proprietary on the MSDS, so even people without the $2,000 to buy a gas chromatograph will soon know what's in a mix anyway.

At least using the known properties of the components in a product would be a fast and inexpensive way for the CRI to give an SoA certification for a chemical, so there would no longer be any justification for charging a huge fee for approval.