Blower warranty issues

[sevenmacs]

I just replaced my 59 Tuthill blower with a roots 59 blower (couldn't locate tuthill) on my chemspec 860 less than 20 hours later shaft shattered (broke just behind coupler, blower spins freely), is this a rare or common occurrence. We had machine shop cut 1/2 inch off shaft to make blower fit in 860, now distributer is saying no warranty because of trimming shaft, although he hasn't presented claim to Roots. Cause unknown, was professionally aligned with dial indicator. Anyone having experience with similar issues feedback would help.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Cause unknown, was professionally aligned with dial indicator. Anyone having experience with similar issues feedback would help.

sevenmacs;

How many hours did you have on the original 59 Tuthill ?

Who did the alignment on the 59 Roots ?

Alignment is usually the cause of shaft breakage.

What type of coupler do you have ?

We have not broken any shafts on all the 860's we have in the field.

I would doubt any warranty coverage.

Larry

 

[FredC]

you modified the shaft....so unless you are going to hire a metallurgy expert to testify in court in your lawsuit against DR that a material failure was the cause of your issue....you might just want to get the blower fixed.............................and start threads on other subjects that might benefit you instead

Finding 50 folks here that had similar issues but DID NOT modify the shaft doesn't add any weight to yourtheory ................finding 50 Folks that did modify the shaft, voiding the warranty, will only support the voiding of the warranty....imho

 

[sevenmacs]

Alignment was done by local supplier service department, has done several 860 alignments, coupler was factory coupler, flywheel w/spline, brand new. The original owner hadn't maintained coupler/ blower very well and it had to be replaced. Mr,Cobb have you ever used a roots on your 860's ? If Roots denies warranty I'll accept it but it hasn't been addressed by Roots yet. I noticed elsewhere on this forum a mention of roots shaft shattering, was just looking to see if this occurs often, metal can be defective. if its not repairable I'll spend the time and get a Tuthill replacement, probably should have in the first place. Still seeking cause, tearing it down today, verifying alignment after breakage is hard. Again just seeking a little info., not wise,,,, comments like Mr Fred C enough said.

 

[dealtimeman]

Generally speaking if you alter the shaft, like cutting it, there is no more warranty. I have seen one other roots shaft break but it was on a poorly designed amtex portable and it was only a 33 size blower.

 

[SMRBAP]

Sevenmacs -

I know this machine inside and out. I could tell you by phone how to tear it down to 1001 pieces and put it back together.

You will never get a blower warrantied on that unit, ever. The reason being is the shaft split is not a blower shortcoming, but an overall unit design flaw. They will send the shaft for analysis, and it will come back every time failure due to misalignment - and so because it is not aligned all the time, nor holds it's alignment.

Having to alter the shaft to make it work in the TM is the end of any fight to say otherwise (it's the blower and not the TM design) in itself.

I laser aligned one unit once every 6 months - and it still ate 2 shafts in 3 years.

The frame isn't solid welds, it's sections bolted together with little to no bracing to eliminate frame flex. Look at the frame when you start it up and shut it down, you will be able to visually see and measure frame motion between the engine and blower frame sections.

The second problem is that hayes coupler, 2 issues - they wear, and let you go out of alignment a little every hour you run it and secondly they corrode in the splines and bind. Some came with grease fittings (usually threw them out eventually due to vibration though). Al Nessinger (owner of the former company) once told me they don't need greased, once told me they fail because nobody greases them. Saw them both with and without zerk grease fittings, had manuals that told you to and omitted greasing it.

You also likely don't have well aligned accessory pulleys. APO, nor water pump, and even with a solid direct blower alignment, that will cause the same problems - as the blower drive pulley is also the drive pulley for those items.

That blower alignment is to be kept to tolerances measured in the ten thousandths - and you can see movement in the frame upon start and stop, or even a rough idle - you are taking it grossly out of alignment.

Great engine, blower, pump, and APO, and that thing could do 260 temps at the wand all day at mid idle. Unfortunately held together with bubble gum engineering and duct tape.

My advice is either budget a blower every 1000-1500 hours, align it every month or two (at most) and put a fresh hayes coupler on it every time you do, or get the machine to someone who can fab a frame to facilitate a pulley driven drive to all components.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news - but it's the non-sugar coated reality of what you are facing.

 

[sevenmacs]

Well I got it apart and no fault of blower, the right side motor mount weld broke causing engine to torque shaft. Poor design in bracing of mount, and someone had badly re-welded it at one time after manufacture as paint was burned off. This 860 is a great machine but they need re=engineering on many levels, I've redesigned many components in the last 2 years, If anyone with 860 experience has any other tips, or foresight into future issues let me know. I still feel that properly cutting shaft shouldn't void warranty, although Roots never denied it, it was distributor speaking.

 

[John Olson]

The distributor made the right call. It would be a huge waste of his time, your time and roots time to even send a blower in that was obviously voided by the end user. Now the question is did ask before cutting the blower if it would void the warrany? As far as the machine your best bet would be to trade it in and get a new machine. We would give you a push pull or drag in price of $1500 towards a New machine.

 

[sevenmacs]

Thanks for the info., machine had 800 hrs when I got, went out at 2100 hrs, didn't give much for machine, packaged with low mileage truck. I'm re-engineering engine mounts ( 3 or 4 point mounting ) and have done some research on different coupler options. Only cost has been for parts, I'm the labor, except alignment done by dealer. Spoke with Hayes design people and they have a new coupler that can be made to work with a Flexing coupler, they told Ace/Chemspec that the coupler was a bad idea from the beginning. Planning on rebuilding my tuthill 59 blower for a spare. We'll see what happens next ,,, thanks again I'll pass on the trade in offer

 

[John Olson]

Your in greely we have a couple guys from there that buy from us. I have a couple of used machine ready to go as well. Just remember you losing 3 times the money you think your losing everyday that machine is down. Even whe you get it back up and running it will still be an 860...I'd strip it down and sell off the parts even if it was a running machine

 

[SMRBAP]

Sevenmacs,

I almost mentioned the engine mounts, I sheared many of them, always caught them before they went though - but it's all the same issue, the frame on these guys just flexes all over the place.

- find an extra computer, before they don't exist anymore, you are likely going to need one at some point. If you can't find one, contact Zenith directly. When it starts to idle down on you, shut down, not start hot, or any other "seems like a random kill sensor failure" - that will be your culprit. For now, I'd put in a makeshift heat shield and muffler wrap it.

- find someone to solidify that frame, gusset and weld as many of the bolted together areas you can, re-drill and tap to higher grade stainless nuts/bolts as well anywhere you can.

- no advice on a flexing coupler, i'm going to assume it incorporates rubber components, and it gets ridiculously hot in that area - be ready to change them on the regular if you go that way, and install extra belts and zip tie them out of the way, when a belt fails you have more on the ready without needing to pull a coupler apart.

- look for any wires on that TM near hot components, many of them had wires way to close to the hx'er components. Muffler wrap is your best friend here.

- if you have the vacuum driven diverter, same deal, muffler wrap those hoses, put longer ones on and reroute them away from the metal exhaust and diverter components.

- a lot of the plumbing in these were left to lie and rub, cut up some old hose split it, wrap areas where hoses and hp lines rub on anything or lie on anything.

- keep the machine descaled or put a softener on it.

- you have a solenoid under the water box mounted on the frame, another part I'd look for and hang on to a spare of, same with all the temp kill switches in the HX system.

- I'd highly recommend changing the cast zinc coated blower inlet out with an aluminum one like Prochem uses, with a relief built in it. That cast elbow will consistently let rust chunks freely be eaten by your blower, all it will take is one a little to large for it to chew and you'll be replacing it again.

- keep a metal coat hanger with you, when the diverter susyem fails, you can rig it half open half closed to at least get you through a day or two to fix it (diverter issues were a big problem for us). You can get the control arm from grainer, another have on the ready part. when that goes it's either your arm, vac line, or the diverter solenoid valve.

- biggest piece of advice, start putting money aside for another TM. I wouldn't count on another 2000 hours out of this guy.

 

[sevenmacs]

Many of the things you've mentioned I've already addressed, I grew up working in a repair garage so these mods aren't a big deal. Keeping the blower healthy seems to be the key. I'll be looking for a spare computer, although I've been told they can be rebuilt. The vacuum inlet is an issue that needs addressed, looking for replacement, plastic on tank side will work, blower half is the issue. Not really loosing any money as we have 2 trucks, we just work extra hours. I'll be keeping my eye out for a good deal when someone needs out , but figuring what to buy is the issue, they all have issues in one way or another. When you buy new you might be good for a year or so, so I don't mind refurbishing. I'm just the back up cleaner so I'm able to do repairs. Thanks for the info. every piece of info. helps.