Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS comparison.

[Bill Soukoreff]

A couple friends and I cleaned an event hall. We extracted and then post cimexed. We used the opportunity to make some comparisons between the three machines: Max Heat Butler, Prochem Everest and a Sapphire 570SS. This was a friendly comparison as we worked together under real cleaning conditions. THIS WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SCIENTIFIC TEST!

Here are some notes of the conditons we were cleaning under:

1. For comparison, each machine single wanded at the same pressure (450 psi) with the same wand. CMP 14" with 5 02's and a hybrid glide.
2. The Everest used all 2" hose and 125ft of parker solution house.
3. The Butler used 50ft of 2.5" and the remainder 2" hose and 150ft of parker solution hose.
4. The Sapphire 570SS used 50ft of 2.5" and the remainder 2" hose and 100 ft of parker solution hose.
5. It was 33.8F outside.
6. All machines were run on max throttle.

We got to see some pretty consistent results:

1. The Butler clearly had both the greatest lift and airflow at the wand. The Everest and the 454SS seemed comparable.
2. The Butler maintained a constant 200+ at the wand (even though it had 25-50ft more solution hose then the other machines).
3. The 570SS maintained a constant 170F at the wand with very little variation.
4. The Everest maintained and average of 170 F at the wand but for some reason spiked between 160 to 180F.

I don't know what the other units fuel consumption was as only my newer van records how much fuel is used, but the Butler on max used 1.7 gallons per hour on a Chevy Express with the 6.0L engine.

One last observation: The 570SS and the Everest's heat went down when the wand was triggered all the time. The Butler got hotter. Makes me want to try 03's next.

Here are pics of the wand thermometer while using the Butler at repeated intervals:

 

[Mikey P]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 450SS compariso

interesting


did your 2 pals come to the same conclusions?

How did you figure out how much lift/airflow each unit was producing?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 450SS compariso

that's the kind of "real world' stuff i love, Bill

Thanks

most of stuff seems cut and dried ...hose, temps, etc
but this one;


" The Butler clearly had both the greatest lift and airflow at the wand"


how was that determined ?
and what was the lift setting on all three machines?

thanks again...good stuff


..l.T.A.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 450SS compariso

Our Butler with Max heat really cooks, but I think our Prochems have better vacuum.
However our Butlers only have the standard 2-inch setup.

 

[steve g]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 450SS compariso

if that is true then the everest puts out less heat than the old 405's, I thought the everest was the updated new fangled 405, a 405 running full throttle single wand will peg out the temp gauge at 230+ ATM all day long. I always wondered how there was a good replacement for the catalytic HX and how they were getting the heat, it appears unless there is something wrong with the machine they failed.

the biggest factor was likely how cold it was. I notice a huge difference in how my machine runs when its 95 degrees vs below freezing.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

The air flow was obvious by the shear noise when you hooked up the same wand to different machines with the same hose lengths. We also played with the Hoss on the Everest and when we switched to the Butler the sound level increase was notable. The lift was obvious by the effort to move the same wand on the carpet. Not rocket science, but clear to me and the Prochem owner. The Sapphire guy did not try wanding with our setups.

The Prochem must be the 408 but I am really not sure, I need to call him and find out.

The 570SS specs says it produces up to 500 CFM and up to 16 hg. The Butler says over 500 CFM which my Bristor CFM confirms at the filter box and 15 hg (which mine is set at). The Everest 408 says 408 CFM and 12 hg (?).

I don't know what the other two machines lift settings were actually set at, but I know they are stock. The 570SS is new and the Prochem is a few years old but low hours and babied by the owner).

I should also mention that soft water was used by all three. Some say you get a bit more heat?

All three set-ups are really nice and I think the Everest would benefit from 2.5" hose. We all agreed that the Butler was impressive considering the stereotypical view that direct drives suffer from low heat and vacuum.

The Sapphire owner is actually a supplier and it was his demo truck. Rick Thode who many of you met at the last Mickey Fest and occasional poster here.

This comparison was purely spontaneous and not meant to prove anything to anyone. Just wanted to pass on our observations.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 450SS compariso

Good to see the new Butler set up is working for you Bill. Mine should be out of vinyl wrap next week and out in the field making some money!

Mark Saiger

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 450SS compariso

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Good to see the new Butler set up is working for you Bill. Mine should be out of vinyl wrap next week and out in the field making some money!

Mark Saiger

Thanks Mark, this my busiest year ever so the Butler is a very welcomed addition to my business! Every time I finish a large day I come home with a smile. When does that end?

Note: I had to edit this thread as it was the 570SS and not the 454SS.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

My new butler should be out of vinyl wrap tomorrow and finish up at dealer Wednesday. Add a couple more items by Thursday afternoon and put it in the field probably Friday. Can't wait!

Mark Saiger

 

[joe harper]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

Bill & Mark...

I was a BUTLERman for many years...!
One of the best thought out PTO'S in the biz...NO DOUBT... :!:

BUT...this is starting to sound like one of the old VORTEX threads... :idea:

They are what they are..."pretty much BULLET-PROOF"
However their ISSUES are Quite EXPENSIVE and time consuming resolve... !gotcha!

What they are NOT....is....more powerful than the units you listed... :shock:

Not trying to start a pissing match here....But there ARE reason's....We NOW run slide-ins... !gotcha!

ps...."Nothing like the SMELL...of a NEW Butler.." congrat's... 8)

 

[Larry Cobb]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

The air flow was obvious by the shear noise when you hooked up the same wand to different machines with the same hose lengths. We also played with the Hoss on the Everest and when we switched to the Butler the sound level increase was notable. The lift was obvious by the effort to move the same wand on the carpet. Not rocket science, but clear to me and the Prochem owner. The Sapphire guy did not try wanding with our setups.

Bill;

AirFlow is NOT obvious.

Wand noise when NOT on the carpet is NOT a good indicator.

The Butler was probably moving more CFM . . .
which made it difficult to move the wand when 1st put down on the carpet.

A more scientific method would be LIFT readings with all of the wands actually on the carpet.

A Prochem set @ 12" max is not going to be competitive.

The heat produced does seem low on the two slide-ins.

Thanks for doing the tests.

Larry

 

[Bob Savage]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

Was there any difference in the dry times among the 3 machines, regardless of which one appeared to have more vacuum?

 

[Lyman]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

Make sure you drill a lot of holes in the bottom angled plate in the filter box. Huge improvement on air flow. I run a 2.5 from the filter box to the side door and hook up hoses to that, another air flow plus. Of course a 2 inch wand is a must. The only problem with mine so far, is the radiator is starting to leak. I still have 6 months of warranty left.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

Hey Lyman. Butler has actually already done that now to their waste basket clean out plates. Lots of improvements in performance with the bulers in the past few years over past butlers. Just small changes but they have listened to our needs and given us the options. The 2.5 hose reel has helped and if you see mine and Bills set up we have a number of great options to make our workday easier and more effecient. Performance of the units is definatley improved as well.

Mark Saiger

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

Hi Bob, we didn't pay attention to dry times. Like I said we were just having fun. But I will tell you that the Prochem Everest Owner was a die hard Prochem slide in guy until now. His next unit will be a Butler.

Joe, your experience is outdated with Butler. This new Butler clearly bested the other two units. You can say whatever you want, but the other two guys have also been in the biz for 30+ years and know what they experienced. Btw, the Everest model he has still has the Nissan motor.

Lyman, yes mine came stock with the new filter box plate. I run two 2.5" hoses from the box to the side door with a wye. The performance is incredible. The 2.5 reel fits perfectly 100 ft with no fighting at all.

Larry, I ran a high CFM but very low lift for years with great results. I know the difference between pushing a glided wand with low or high lift. The Prochem owner, could not believe either how much more effort it took to push the wand. I agree, that there is allot of things going on but sometimes you just have to trust the guys that have pushed wands for 30 years. I don't believe it was just higher CFM.

The purpose of this post is just to show that a newer Butler does not lack performance as is sometimes stated on this board. As for the heat, I am now getting into sub zero temps and I still see no drop off in temperature. It loves flow and the wand tube is hot as hell like when I ran the Savage propane heater.

 

[joe harper]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

Well Bill,

I guess it is going to be a pissing match... :roll:

I know you are proud of your NEW unit...!

We all are EgomAnIc's...when it comes to our tools... "Of course WE own the best.!".. :roll:

Your thinking may be a lil OutDaTeD... :?:

"You do realize that the BUTLER CORPERATION...sells units in Florida... "RIGHT ????"
I am familiar with the NEW unit's...They are SWEET...!!!!!
And much improved in the performance area... 8)

Your comparisons are flawed..."Even though you were NOT doing a controlled experiment..."

1. You are operating a BRAND NEW unit..
2. I am not familiar with the Sapphire unit..But their claim to fame is their HX superiority & footprint.
3. The Everest is an old unit & 2" hose make a huge difference...

I have a hard time believing the 170 degree ONLY...readings...????
The "spIkInG" issue...screams maintenance problems to me...The water is 180 in the Water Box...
Prior to getting to the HX exchangers... :!: BTW the longer the solution length...The MORE heat
can be maintained... :roll:

The BUTLER unit is a FANTASTIC carpet cleaning unit... 8)
HOWERVER...by the time you TOTAL the ticket...You can have a BIG HX unit & a box truck.. !gotcha!

So..If your business does MORE than clean carpet....THE VALUE IS NOT THERE...jus sayin..!

We can continue if you wish... :mrgreen:


PS.. HX High Flow & Heat....Do Not have a PRAYER...when comparing to FUEL fired units.! So if these are major concerns for YOU... PUSH the FLOW up to 15....and CRANK the PSI up to 700..."And BURN
some fuel.. :!: HG & LIFT...can be achieved with a MUCH smaller blower...if they are NOT heating WATER !gotcha!

 

[steve g]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

harper, type legibly you do realize reading your posts are actually painful, I don't as a result. all the spaces, stops and smiley faces are too much. does it take an hour to write each one of your posts??

 

[joe harper]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

harper, type legibly you do realize reading your posts are actually painful, I don't as a result. all the spaces, stops and smiley faces are too much. does it take an hour to write each one of your posts??

Pretty much.

I edited the last double post just for you. If you will take notice. I removed the last 3 periods.

Your are welcome !

 

[Dolly Llama]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

harper, type legibly you do realize reading your posts are actually painful, I don't as a result. all the spaces, stops and smiley faces are too much. does it take an hour to write each one of your posts??

it used to be annoying ...but once you've crAckED the cOde and learned to decipher his hieroglyphics...
it's not hard to follow


..L.T.A.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

What they are NOT....is....more powerful than the units you listed..

2. I am not familiar with the Sapphire unit..

Well, that explains a lot. Enough said. :roll:

 

[joe harper]

Re: Butler Max, Prochem Everest and Sapphire 570SS compariso

"You fight like Bruders"..... :mrgreen: