CGD bubbling up multiple spots

Condog

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Tony
Hi everyone,

I have cleaned an assisted living facility a couple times.
They have a dining room with carpet installed a year ago.
They are only at half occupancy, so they used the lowest bid.
The carpet is bubbling up all over the dining area.

I told them I have never done a repair of this type, and told them so.
I told them they would have to sign a hold harmless, before I did the repair.

If anyone has experience your advice would be appreciated.

I found these two video's (one is a bit lame).


 

Cleanworks

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Ron Marriott
Hi everyone,

I have cleaned an assisted living facility a couple times.
They have a dining room with carpet installed a year ago.
They are only at half occupancy, so they used the lowest bid.
The carpet is bubbling up all over the dining area.

I told them I have never done a repair of this type, and told them so.
I told them they would have to sign a hold harmless, before I did the repair.

If anyone has experience your advice would be appreciated.

I found these two video's (one is a bit lame).


A lot of bubbles in a recent installation leads me to believe a poor job was done installing it. They check to see if they have any warranty. I had an issue with a condo building with carpet just over 1 year old. Buckled badly when I cleaned. Had them check with the installer who said, "we just perimeter glues it". Not an acceptable installation and the had to replace it at their cost.
 
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A lot of bubbles in a recent installation leads me to believe a poor job was done installing it. They check to see if they have any warranty. I had an issue with a condo building with carpet just over 1 year old. Buckled badly when I cleaned. Had them check with the installer who said, "we just perimeter glues it". Not an acceptable installation and the had to replace it at their cost.
Installers being cheap and lazy… leaves us to blame.
 
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Condog

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I haven't cleaned this carpet.
There is no blame on me, that's a relief.
Their old carpet cleaner went out of business during covid.

Installers shut doors - probably because they weren't any good.
Assisted living facility mgr. said he can't get a hold of him for 6 months before he called me.
Cleaner, probably covid. I called his number, voice box full, no answer.
 
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I haven't cleaned this carpet.
There is no blame on me, that's a relief.
Their old carpet cleaner went out of business during covid.

Installers shut doors - probably because they weren't any good.
Assisted living facility mgr. said he can't get a hold of him for 6 months before he called me.
Cleaner, probably covid. I called his number, voice box full, no answer.
Tony, set expectations if you plan on taking the job. No matter how much moisture you add, you’re only going to exasperate the issue…
We lost a government contract from this exact issue…. The installer blamed me for leaving the carpet to wet… even though we VLM’ed it…
Nobody wants to admit they fooked up…
 
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Cleanworks

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I haven't cleaned this carpet.
There is no blame on me, that's a relief.
Their old carpet cleaner went out of business during covid.

Installers shut doors - probably because they weren't any good.
Assisted living facility mgr. said he can't get a hold of him for 6 months before he called me.
Cleaner, probably covid. I called his number, voice box full, no answer.
Other than pulling the carpet up and regluing it, which is probably impossible, the only way I have seen is injecting glue through to the backing and rolling it flat and maybe leaving weights on it. The problem with a poor installation is that you may fix some spots only to find others when the carpet is next cleaned.
 
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Doug B
I did some of this a few years ago. About 500 sf of hall at a senior place. Using Crain carpet syringes I injected latex adhesive through the carpet and used a roller to spread it underneath, then placed a toolbox on it to hold it down. I used the weights for my 175 to put where the toolbox had been. I only had to do the areas that were loose, but took me two whole nights to complete. The next time I cleaned the carpet I cleaned up all the injection spots.

I don't plan on doing this again, but if I do I will find an adhesive that flows better. It was so difficult and time consuming to force the latex through the needle. I think I could have been done in 4 hours if I used a different adhesive.
 

roro

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Similar to Doug have used the Crain but sometimes found a large medical syringe without the needle a better option for smaller areas.
 
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bob vawter

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Back when I got my 1st TM (Big Red)
I nailed a 9 bank contract....
And lost it on the 1st job....those
DA two ft squares bubbled worse than ever...
And yes back then we could jus leave
The back door open....hard to believe!
Next Morning all had laid back down
Perfect.....
I believe it was the open back door at
Nite that killed me!
 
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encapman

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A unitary backed carpet with a stretched-installation without being glued down is probably what's causing the problem.

Several years ago I cleaned a couple of B Dalton bookstores that had a serious problem with this. I had to clean with the lowest moisture desert-dry methods I could contrive. And yet it would still heave up like a roller coaster after we cleaned it. Even high humidity would cause this carpet to bubble.

Unitary backed carpet is a strategy to deliver a lower cost product. Normally carpet has a primary backing that the fiber gets woven through. And then latex and a polypropylene mesh gets fused to the back as a secondary backing to add lateral stability.

In the case of a unitary backed carpet, the carpet installation MUST be glued to the floor. The gluing to the floor is what provides stability. Without a secondary backing (and with carpet that wasn't glued down) there's no stability and the carpet will float, ripple, and bubble wildly! That's most likely what you're seeing here.

Unfortunately this is an installation error and there is no fix. Do not attempt to solve this problem. Inform the customer that it can't be resolved. If you go down this path you'll become a party to their problem.
 
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Condog

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A unitary backed carpet with a stretched-installation without being glued down is probably what's causing the problem.

Several years ago I cleaned a couple of B Dalton bookstores that had a serious problem with this. I had to clean with the lowest moisture desert-dry methods I could contrive. And yet it would still heave up like a roller coaster after we cleaned it. Even high humidity would cause this carpet to bubble.

Unitary backed carpet is a strategy to deliver a lower cost product. Normally carpet has a primary backing that the fiber gets woven through. And then latex and a polypropylene mesh gets fused to the back as a secondary backing to add lateral stability.

In the case of a unitary backed carpet, the carpet installation MUST be glued to the floor. The gluing to the floor is what provides stability. Without a secondary backing (and with carpet that wasn't glued down) there's no stability and the carpet will float, ripple, and bubble wildly! That's most likely what you're seeing here.

Unfortunately this is an installation error and there is no fix. Do not attempt to solve this problem. Inform the customer that it can't be resolved. If you go down this path you'll become a party to their problem.
Thank you
 

Condog

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I did some of this a few years ago. About 500 sf of hall at a senior place. Using Crain carpet syringes I injected latex adhesive through the carpet and used a roller to spread it underneath, then placed a toolbox on it to hold it down. I used the weights for my 175 to put where the toolbox had been. I only had to do the areas that were loose, but took me two whole nights to complete. The next time I cleaned the carpet I cleaned up all the injection spots.

I don't plan on doing this again, but if I do I will find an adhesive that flows better. It was so difficult and time consuming to force the latex through the needle. I think I could have been done in 4 hours if I used a different adhesive.
An installer told me I could use gorilla glue.
 

Condog

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Regardless as to the method you use to treat this, tell them it's an hourly rate. That way you aren't going back again for free when new bubbles appear.
Great advice, in the hold harmless form I included language that this is not a guarantee, and holes will be poked into the carpet and backing, and this doesn't guarantee that bubbles will not appear in the same place or different places.
 

Fat Mike

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We done quite a few of these. To find all the spots do not add moisture. Go in there and turn the heat up to about 85 this will cause the carpet to expand.

it may not be worth the hassle when it would be faster to cut a seam and re glue properly. Which we’ve done also.

there’s a much easier glue to use. We use it for hollow tile repairs. In tile we drill holes in grout lines and inject that way. But same glue can be used for the carpet but you have to be careful it’s very thin and if it has any pressure build up it will spray everywhere.
 
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Fat Mike

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Fix a floor and tile rescue is the only one I’m seeing on Google but that’s not the one I use.

I only know it from the way it looks. We get ours from Big D Flooring not sure if you have one.
Just hire a good installer he should be able to fix it
 
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Condog

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I tried to repair tonight. There were about 40 different bubbles/lines.
First row I got use to using hypodermic needle to pull up glue in the needle (Roberts multi-purpose).
I experimented and found leaving awl tip in the carpet would let the air come out and the carpet would lay flat using the carpet tractor.

The second row was a different beast. No matter how much I used the carpet tractor the carpet would just bubble up somewhere else, and I put enough glue under the carpet, a dab would come back out of the awl hole and I would wipe it up.

I let the manager know that this was beyond my present ability (which I told him before I agreed to repair, and he did sign a hold harmless agreement - with the responsibility to defend in court, so he would pay for my lawyer if he sues).

If I was comfortable slicing and taping where the needle wasn't enough, I would of tried that in conjunction with the needle.

He texted back not to worry that he would find someone with more experience. Hopefully this doesn't bite me in the arse.
 
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