Charging problem on truckmount....

[Nate The Great]

I have a 20hp water cooled Kawasaki FD620 motor running a 45 blower and a hypro pump. Century 400 Eliminator. It was the first truckmount built by Prochem when Prochem bought Century 400 and labeled it under the Century 400. The truckmount never gave me any problems until I ran a power inverter off the battery for the pumpout. Now it seems that the battery doesn't get charged when the engine is running. I slow charged the battery and it would crank for 1 time to turn on the machine, then not crank after being turned off. I first had to start the battery off the van when I found out. I have been bringing a battery booster to start it. Once it starts, there isn't any problems. I looked in the user manual and couldn't find anything. I need to get it fixed. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on what the problem is?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nate The Great]

What would cause a battery not to charge on a water cooled small engine? I couldn't find any alternator. Help please?

 

[Jim Martin]

normally if a battery will not charge it is because of 3 different things....

bad battery cell
bad alternator
bad voltage regulator

on some..the voltage regulator is built into the alternator

If you have a meter.test the battery and see what the service charge is...then
jump start it and put the meter on the battery and see if it is charging.....

lets start there and let me know what you find........

 

[Captain Morgan]

I've got the same issue with my Powermatic 1150.

found out my TM doesn't have an alternator but, does have a voltage regulator like NtG's system. I've checked the wiring for cuts, wear spots, etc.. but haven't found any problems there.

I also discovered that my TM has a voltage relay? Jeff at Steamway Express has only seen 1 other Powermatic with a relay... go figure, just my luck! Brent from Go Green on the board here had similar issue and replacing the cables solved his problem. I'm going to get new cables tomorrow. Then check the battery this weekend, as you suggested to Nate.

I'm going to do all the simple, easy, inexpensive things first before I start buying new voltage regulators and relays. Hopefully it's something that simple.

Nate keep posting on your progress and what you find. Maybe we both have the same solution to our problems?
Thanks for helping indirectly Jim.. two birds with one post! Pretty good.. :wink:
Bill

 

[Nate The Great]

Jim Martin, Thanks. I'll get my friend to come over with a multimeter and check it for me.

FCC, I'll also check my battery and cables. The cables look new. Everything ran fine until my dumb a$$ thought I could run a inverter off the battery to run my pumpout.

WJMorgan3, I'll keep my results posted. I'm having a feeling that I may have just screwed the battery. I will get it tested at a local battery place.


Mikeysboard rules!!

 

[Jim Martin]

FYI..........a power inverter has to have a adequate power source that has the ability to re charge the system as it is being used...there are some independent machines that may handle this but most wont......you could rig yourself up a system that is hooked directly to the van itself and put in a switch for the pump out....just make sure that EVERYTHING is fused and the right wire gauge is used.......The biggest problem with this is....if you are doing a large job...the pump out/inverter will sooner or later start draining down the van battery and the inverter should shut itself down because of low voltage so you will be forced to start the van to keep the system charged.....If you are just doing normal cleaning and it kicks on a few times before you are done then you should be OK......Another thing that I have always found helpful is to put one of those $25/$30 solar charging mats on the dash and plug it into the cigarette lighter to help keep a good surface charge on the battery.......................

 

[Nate The Great]

FYI..........a power inverter has to have a adequate power source that has the ability to re charge the system as it is being used...there are some independent machines that may handle this but most wont......you could rig yourself up a system that is hooked directly to the van itself and put in a switch for the pump out....just make sure that EVERYTHING is fused and the right wire gauge is used.......The biggest problem with this is....if you are doing a large job...the pump out/inverter will sooner or later start draining down the van battery and the inverter should shut itself down because of low voltage so you will be forced to start the van to keep the system charged.....If you are just doing normal cleaning and it kicks on a few times before you are done then you should be OK......Another thing that I have always found helpful is to put one of those $25/$30 solar charging mats on the dash and plug it into the cigarette lighter to help keep a good surface charge on the battery.......................

Yes, I did a large job taking 6 - 7 hours. That's when I found out the next day it wouldn't start. I'll just run a 100' cord to an outlet at the job. I do have one of the solar charging mats. Does it even charge the battery when no power comes out once the key is turned off?

 

[Jim Martin]

normally yes.....I have a Tundra that sits out in front of my house that I really don't use .... normally will sit for 2 to 3 months doing nothing but running the alarm system....I have on of those mats on the dash and no matter how long it sits she will crank over every time...the solar mat helps keep a good 12 volt surface charge on the battery.....

 

[Nate The Great]

normally if a battery will not charge it is because of 3 different things....

bad battery cell
bad alternator
bad voltage regulator

on some..the voltage regulator is built into the alternator

If you have a meter.test the battery and see what the service charge is...then
jump start it and put the meter on the battery and see if it is charging.....

lets start there and let me know what you find........

Alright, I bought a new battery to eliminate the bad battery cell possibility. I had my friend come over and test the battery. He said that it's not getting charged. When the multimeter was on with the engine off, volts were 12.3. When the engine started, the volts dropped to 10.3. When the engine was running, the volts went back to 12.3. He told me it's not charging and I most likely will kill that battery too.

So, I'm considering if it's the voltage regulator?... He told me that he thinks it's should have a stator or alternator and it might be internal. He's guessing, so take it for what it's worth. He also told me that he doesn't think it's the voltage regulator because it only regulates the volts. So, what's next?

 

[joe harper]

It was 7-10..to be exact..."you can lead them to water".... :roll:

I don't even have the problem....But I took the time to reveiw the PDF... :shock:

 

[Captain Morgan]

boy... did I feel like a total dickhead this morning. My cables looked fine but I wanted a second opinion. I asked Mike from NAPA and he said nothing wrong with them.

Mike asked me what my problem was.. so acting all intelligent I explained the problem. he asked about the alternator.. I continued my TM didn't have an alternator it has a voltage regulator.. he looked at me like I was wearing an ass hat! What the hell charges your battery when the machine's running? Uhh, mmm, ahhh.. well.. uuhh I blurted out that was what I was told, so I wouldn't look like a total tool.. Got a minute to look at my machine?

He indulged me and ..

he thinks it's should have a stator or alternator my blood pressure was going through the roof because I was so angry, upset and embarrassed. he doesn't think it's the voltage regulator because it only regulates the volts.

and it might be internal

that's what Mike said too.

So, back to where I started.. I'll keep you guys posted if I find anything else over the weekend

 

[joe harper]

Bill, it is your Regulator/rectifier.....The Stator very seldom goes BAD....

Read you manuals or google Kohler engines.."electrical troubleshooting"...
Running the kohler off your van battery...will "Fry" the regulator...

Got to any small engine repair shop... :!:

 

[Jim Martin]

Alright, I bought a new battery to eliminate the bad battery cell possibility. I had my friend come over and test the battery. He said that it's not getting charged. When the multimeter was on with the engine off, volts were 12.3. When the engine started, the volts dropped to 10.3. When the engine was running, the volts went back to 12.3. He told me it's not charging and I most likely will kill that battery too.

OK..what am I missing here.....meter on new battery with machine off..12.3....good surface charge..what you should expect from a new battery.....

turn machine on...(and machine starts).....power from machine drops surface charge to 10.3....seems pretty normal..the drag from the engine starting will draw the battery charge down some.....once machine starts and the battery goes back up to 12.3...seems to me like it is holding ....BUT....you will not be able to tell if it is discharging until you run it for a job or 2 and then re test it....with the machine off and see what the surface charge is and if it drained the battery with out recharging it.....

and Yes a voltage regulator does regulate the voltage...it does not allow the battery to over charge...when they go bad..they will not allow the battery to charge either....

 

[Nate The Great]

Alright, I bought a new battery to eliminate the bad battery cell possibility. I had my friend come over and test the battery. He said that it's not getting charged. When the multimeter was on with the engine off, volts were 12.3. When the engine started, the volts dropped to 10.3. When the engine was running, the volts went back to 12.3. He told me it's not charging and I most likely will kill that battery too.

OK..what am I missing here.....meter on new battery with machine off..12.3....good surface charge..what you should expect from a new battery.....

turn machine on...(and machine starts).....power from machine drops surface charge to 10.3....seems pretty normal..the drag from the engine starting will draw the battery charge down some.....once machine starts and the battery goes back up to 12.3...seems to me like it is holding ....BUT....you will not be able to tell if it is discharging until you run it for a job or 2 and then re test it....with the machine off and see what the surface charge is and if it drained the battery with out recharging it.....

and Yes a voltage regulator does regulate the voltage...it does not allow the battery to over charge...when they go bad..they will not allow the battery to charge either....

Jim Martin, I'll do a couple of jobs and see where I stand. I may just be jumping the gun. I appreciate your time on this.

FCC, My bad on not looking at the PDF link you posted. My work computer didn't let it open the link. I reviewed it the PDF file from a different computer. Thanks for that. I'll reference it when I continue to run more trouble shooting.


Harper, No comments from the peanut gallery!


WJMorgan3, I hope you have more luck with the truoble shooting.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Brought the TM to a small engine repair shop that is a Kohler Dist. I started the TM and he tested the lines in and out of the regulator. She's no good. Should be all fixed on Monday. Hopefully that's all needs fixing.

Thanks for everyone's help.
Bill

 

[joe harper]

Thats great BILL. :!: :!:

 

[Nate The Great]

I used my tm for a couple jobs and seems to be running fine. About 5 hours on it. I think it was just a fried/dead battery. So far so good.

That's good news Bill, I hope it solves your problem.