Credibility

[Willy P]

It's almost too funny watching a certain soap opera unfold. People constantly justifying their purchase.

BUT

Let's see if ol' Gramps here can scrape a few tidbits from memory lane...... I called shyster right off the mark when a yapping yorkie ( thank you for that term Mark Schipper) started coming on the boards, hawking a city block size machine that would have you earning a gazillion dollars just on walk ups alone. Not just me, but my old buddy Rawknee,(anyone heard from Rawknee lately?) Lee S, Nick (before he fell out of favour) and others that have been around the business a lot longer than some of you have been alive. Right up there with Steve Mathie (Shawn Forsythe and I were tag teaming back then)
" I don't spend much money buying lunches, but I'll pick up the tab from Taco Bell" :roll: Sounded a bit funny from a guy selling big ticket machines, but some people are just tightwads. Well Mr. Barnum found a few and then the troubles with manufacturers started. That was so mind numbing, my brain hurts just thinking about the half truths and horse manure that followed that for a while. The curves and u turns seemed to smooth out and then the rest of us found out we were hacks if we weren't using a V. Not one of my customers felt that way, but it had to be true. :wink: "Cash in your 401K's and become a millionaire" was encouraged. Slimey doesn't even begin to describe that sleazy tactic.

And on it went until the tshirt got wet and you saw that the nipples were pointing south, not north. The sweater was unraveling, the cheap suit was wrinkled. Seems someone was, for lack of a better term, puffing up the wares with slight of hand and glossy literature. No 500,000 sf manufacturing facility, no corporate tower, but an office in a van down by the river and pics of someone elses's facility, along with a defense of "Wouldn't you do that?". No I wouldn't and don't because of the sleaze factor.

Meanwhile, the fix was in for new product flavour of the month. "This is the apex of chemistry", or my personal favourite, "Thousands in polishing Mrs. Piffleton's stainless steel sink". Again, it was brain numbing. I almost felt the shame and scorn that was heaped on the "hacks" if you didn't follow the latest, fastest and greatest. You became the dog turd that was stepped on if you questioned anything. But the pimping business fell off I guess...


But there was something missing......
CREDIBILTY

I don't find it funny, but really sad to see. I have a good "radar" , but others may not have as good a sense and to those that got taken in, I truly feel sorry for them. It's good to see some truth to what I was seeing all along, but was heaped on for saying so I shut up and stood in my corner.
When your kharma runs over your dogma......

 

[Mikey P]

Were you stepped on Willy?



Or did you just take offense when I talked about what a hunk of shit the Resoil is?

 

[Willy P]

No more than you getting taken by a carnival barker. Ed has always worked his ass off in the customer service end.(And if a part breaks, I can fix it from the hardware store) Sadly, it seems that's not the case with x]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDo-PK_wDgQx]

So how is the stainless polishing going? :wink:

BTW- Sorry to see you got forked on the V, but it's promising to see you going public about it, even if it is a few years late.

 

[Mikey P]

I bought my SS kit to polish my Vortex.

 

[Willy P]

You BOUGHT it?? :roll:

I'm not trying to kick you when you're down, but there has been a few times when things got "stretched" a little.

The thing that made me wretch was the Yapper telling people to cash in retirement savings to buy a V. I guess in hindsight, it would have saved a few hides if they knew the V was a pile of grief instead of a no limit ATM machine. Anyone that got stuck there is who I really feel sorry for.

 

[Mikey P]

actually I was given a $19.95 home use kit to test.


and it does work well.


I've used it many time to fix scratches in customer's home at no charge.

 

[Willy P]

Crocus cloth and varsol work wonders for polishing metals. Just be dure to do a cross hatch polish with a block. Wenol is good too.

Are you keeping the V or going the simpler route with the Judson units? I was quite impressed with Fosters and Werners Judsons. Clean and simple.


I was at the game last night- the Canucks are looking pretty good. My last two tickets from my share in the season's seats are San Jose Thursday and Detroit on Saturday. I'm gonna go see some sledge hockey for the Paralympics if I can scare up some seats. Those guys rock!

 

[Mikey P]

I'll keep the V for a few more years.

Now that it's lost it's luster I don't mind my Chimps drag racing around in it.

 

[Willy P]

There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple. I'm so busy I have to book my hand 2 weeks in advance to wipe my ass. When I bought out my buddy's business last year, I wasn't prepared for the uptick in volume and it isn't even the busy season yet. I don't know how he did it using a 10 gallon 100 psi fiberglass box extractor but he was getting .35 a square for his jobs. Go figure.

Where do you find good help? I'm in need, but I can't seem to find a green hand that I can train to my standards. I had 2 "experienced" guys that lasted a couple of weeks, but weren't what I wanted or needed. Too many bad habits, too cocksure.

 

[Ken Snow]

Willy- don't run ads. Ask your customers to recommnd someone and offer a 300 cash reward for the referral if the person is with you after 90 days. We have offered this in the past to lients and gotten good results. Now it is an in house referral process so that pretty much every new employee is referred by an existing employee.

Our sucess rate is very, very high and almost no one fails the pre hire drug test (make sure you do one of those too).

Ken

 

[Willy P]

Thanks Ken. You can't do drug testing by law here in Vansterdam, but my insurance company has a pretty good set of guidelines of what my need to do is- i.e. criminal check, references, etc. It was just finding a source of potential talent and with a tight labour market as it seems some kids think its equivalent to cleaning toilets. I've got an in on a HUGE job after the Paralympics, but I'll need reliable help and that seems to be a toughie. It's not a money thing as I start at 14 for the first month, then 16 with review after 6 , but it's hard work and I have pretty high standards. It's hard to keep people when they can go work construction and stuff at 20 plus an hour starting. KFC pays 14 an hour with medical and dental. :shock:

 

[ronbeatty]

Willy P,

I see that you have been in this industry for 30 years. I have been in it a little longer and know the facts that everyone else her is hesitant to bring up. HydraMaster was started in the owners garage, Butler was started in Bill Meshau's garage (sorry can't remember the spelling), my father picked it up there. I remember his son Jack telling me that Cindy and he stuffed product info into envelopes on their kitchen table. I don't know where Prochem started but I assume it wasn't in a modern factory with 20 employees, correct me if I am wrong. Drieaz was started by Claude Blackburn putting direction shrouds on furnace fans probably at his shop. These were hard working people with a vision, and the timing was good, add a little luck and 25 plus years, you have the major players in our industry.
All this said for a reason, some of the other manufacturers have had a little more time to work on some of their "bugs". The HydraMaster S series that we started with were awful, in the summer heat they would vapor lock, they would burn points and after a while they would vibrate every component loose. The first Butler units wouldn't heat because the thermostat was in the block of the engine, it had to be moved, to work the way it needed to. The Vortex units are the best cleaning tools I have worked with so far, they have had their issues, but that is how we learn and progress. I think the future looks better because the manufacturers are working to build new units with some innovations that will deal with some of the "mistakes" of the past.

 

[green guy]

Could also try posting a job under "help wanted cust. service" I prefer to work with someone who has experience making people happy. Not real concerned with industry guys. I look for a communicator that has no idea how valuable and profitable that can be. Most of these cust serv. people make like 8 or 9 an hour which they are happy with. Sounds like your going through a growth spurt in which case you need to build your dream team so you can work on not in your company.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Great post

"Thousands in polishing Mrs. Piffleton's stainless steel sink". Again, it was brain numbing. I almost felt the shame and scorn that was heaped on the "hacks" if you didn't follow the latest, fastest and greatest. You became the dog turd that was stepped on if you questioned anything.

Have to agree, the above attitudes are this boards biggest liabilities.

 

[Bob Foster]

The 'tudes from the mavericks are what make this board tick. Milk-toasting this place would make it boring and the contributors would leave and not be displaced with the same or better people. Cleanfax is a good example. Sorry Jeff - you're a good guy but it ain't fun to hang out there like it is here.

At the same time what allows a person to make almost any remark they want on this board is countered with the ability for anyone here to call bullshit. Try disagreeing with the owner of some of the other boards.

Keep it up Willy everyone's paying attention. It's up to all as individuals, and not someone else, to put anyone's nuts in the vice that deserves it so we can keep things real around here.

 

[Erik]

Why is all the shit with the Vortex put on Shawn's lap? I think FMI is to blame as well. I haven't heard one comment directed at the manufacture. If you had a problem with your Blueline, would you blame it on Tom? I think you are all being a bunch of cry babies with your old ass trucks. I will be the first to tell everyone that I've had a ton of problems and still do with my Vortex. But alot of my problems now are the components going bad. I just had a blower go last week on my 6008 for the third time. This time it was caused from the vacuum relief valve hanging up. Did Shawn make the relief valve? NO I was told my machine would last about 8 years when I purchased my 777 back in 2001. It's still running like a champ. You guys are all talking about 6 year old machines that you're having problems with. Any machine ran hard for 6 years is going to have its problems. I'm not saying Shawn was a saint with his sales tactics, but he was able to accomplish more on his own than most could only dream of. IMO

 

[The Great Oz]

Whenever I hear someone loudly touting a product or service that seems too good to be true I'll do a little research. If there's little basis for the excitement the promoter might be a shill, or may just need "to get out more" that is, gain a little experience. Guys that have been around awhile get dismissed for being behind the times or cheap when they don't jump at the latest-greatest innovation in years, but maybe they've already learned their lesson: Chasing fads isn't profitable.

 

[-JB-]

Willy- don't run ads. Ask your customers to recommnd someone and offer a 300 cash reward for the referral if the person is with you after 90 days. We have offered this in the past to lients and gotten good results. Now it is an in house referral process so that pretty much every new employee is referred by an existing employee.

Ken I sole that one from you, has worked out well for me to, but I only pay $100/hire & $100/90day :mrgreen:

 

[Mikey P]

I'm not saying Shawn was a saint with his sales tactics, but he was able to accomplish more on his own than most could only dream of. IMO

I don't think many dream of owing a patent on a worthless product while having less than 46 cents to buy your Costa Rican house boy a taco with.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

You can say that again!

Willy P,

I see that you have been in this industry for 30 years. I have been in it a little longer and know the facts that everyone else her is hesitant to bring up. HydraMaster was started in the owners garage, Butler was started in Bill Meshau's garage (sorry can't remember the spelling), my father picked it up there. I remember his son Jack telling me that Cindy and he stuffed product info into envelopes on their kitchen table. I don't know where Prochem started but I assume it wasn't in a modern factory with 20 employees, correct me if I am wrong. Drieaz was started by Claude Blackburn putting direction shrouds on furnace fans probably at his shop. These were hard working people with a vision, and the timing was good, add a little luck and 25 plus years, you have the major players in our industry.
All this said for a reason, some of the other manufacturers have had a little more time to work on some of their "bugs". The HydraMaster S series that we started with were awful, in the summer heat they would vapor lock, they would burn points and after a while they would vibrate every component loose. The first Butler units wouldn't heat because the thermostat was in the block of the engine, it had to be moved, to work the way it needed to. The Vortex units are the best cleaning tools I have worked with so far, they have had their issues, but that is how we learn and progress. I think the future looks better because the manufacturers are working to build new units with some innovations that will deal with some of the "mistakes" of the past.

 

[Ken Snow]

good for you John, hope its been working for you.

 

[Willy P]

Willy P,

I see that you have been in this industry for 30 years. I have been in it a little longer and know the facts that everyone else her is hesitant to bring up. HydraMaster was started in the owners garage, Butler was started in Bill Meshau's garage (sorry can't remember the spelling), my father picked it up there. I remember his son Jack telling me that Cindy and he stuffed product info into envelopes on their kitchen table. I don't know where Prochem started but I assume it wasn't in a modern factory with 20 employees, correct me if I am wrong. Drieaz was started by Claude Blackburn putting direction shrouds on furnace fans probably at his shop. These were hard working people with a vision, and the timing was good, add a little luck and 25 plus years, you have the major players in our industry.
All this said for a reason, some of the other manufacturers have had a little more time to work on some of their "bugs". The HydraMaster S series that we started with were awful, in the summer heat they would vapor lock, they would burn points and after a while they would vibrate every component loose. The first Butler units wouldn't heat because the thermostat was in the block of the engine, it had to be moved, to work the way it needed to. The Vortex units are the best cleaning tools I have worked with so far, they have had their issues, but that is how we learn and progress. I think the future looks better because the manufacturers are working to build new units with some innovations that will deal with some of the "mistakes" of the past.

I'm not arguing there's been a long history of innovations that started on the back of a matchbook over a cup of coffee or a beer with a few good ideas and a lot of optimism and faith. The older units up here in the early 80's were the Cleanco's and I believe it was a Steam Genie slide in, but that's stretching my brain back pretty far.Remember Rug Bugs? :wink:

I just found the marketing to be , well, deceptive at worst and pretty cheesy at best. Being honest about a project verses creating a facade with pictures and parlour tricks just doesn't cut it with me. My repair guy works out of the garage at his home, but he does repair work for some of the biggest restoration companies up here and can pull apart anything from any TM, dehum, fan to most any porty with his eyes closed. He used to work on trucks, but the money wasn't there and getting proprietary parts was a nightmare. But he's trustworthy and busts his ass to get his customers back and working.

My point being, I deal with mostly smaller companies for a couple of reasons. First off, they work harder to get and retain my business. It may cost me a few bucks more, but it leads to point 2- the relationship between supplier and end user is a partnership in which both parties share in the success. In my opinion, parts and manuals shouldn't ever be an issue. It's not as if there's no money in supplying parts and a manual costs next to nothing. That and telling people to cash in their life savings is reptilian and repulses me as it would most any person with a touch of compassion.