Customer miffed How should I have handled this?

[gimmeagig]

Hi,
I hope you'll take the time to read this and give me your input..
I'm pretty new to the business and a lot of things that come up are new to me, so please go easy on me.
I have an acquaintance he's a slumlord and he owns these dumps that he rents out to sometimes very questionable tenants. He had two small homes side by side that he was working on to be rented out again.He told me that he already had a quote for 100.- ( mayor may not be true)for the both of them and because I need the experience and was thinking I might get some future business if I show him what i can do, I told him I would match the price.He agreed.
The places were a real mess. House one: dark blue commercial grade short pile nylon, giant 3 ft across stain in one room. Came out fine and smelling good.House two: light colored Olefin and it was REALLY dirty. Stains and grime all over the place. I cleaned it including pre vac, pre spray and dryers on the carpet after.It also came out very nice.He still had workers in the house finishing projects.
Time to get paid, he didn't have a check with him so I told him he could mail it to me. He didn't, so when i called to remind him he agreed on a time and a place to meet to pay me. He made me drive to a different location where he showed up really late and I finally got my hundred bucks.
A couple of weeks later he called me to tell me that a lot of the spots in the Olefin house came back and that house one with the big stain stinks now.
I agreed to take a look at it.The olefin did not look good. Lots of spots everywhere.Remembering that people walked on the carpet right after and the trouble I had getting paid for a job that I bid really low, I told him I would do the whole house again for 50,-
He was really unhappy with that so I said I'd do it for 30.- just to make him happy, but he wanted it done for free.
I refused and he drove off mad.
I feel bad about this. Did the best I could and I wish I could have done a better job ( lack of experience?) but the carpet was so dirty....
I probably shouldn't have done the job for that price in the first place but I did.That's not the way I wanted it to end up.
How should I have handled this situation and what can I do to avoid something like that from happening again.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Tell him to pay or you are going to run a hose in the window and dump piss water in the carpet.

 

[Fred Homan]

He sounds like a prick! Did you tell him to **** off!!!

 

[handdi]

this should be a lesson to ya
charge enough to DO THE JOB RIGHT
and if u do have do go bac and reclean
do it and eat it

do'nt get your price let them get someone else

 

[Nate The Great]

I really wouldn't want repeat work from that dude. $100 for both places pretty cheap. I regularly buy dinner with $100...... shiteatinggrin


I'd tell him to take a long walk off a short pier...... Which looks to be what he did... !gotcha!


I am curious on what type of tools and equipment your cleaning with? Olefin can be deceptive while cleaning it. Getting it clean and dry dry dry is the best way to clean anything.

 

[Hoody]

This happens more often than you think. Soon you'll learn to "detect" who these people are, and when they're going to rake you over the coals. Unfortunately this landlord probably plays this game with all of his vendors, and many probably fall for it. He has an idea of what he wants to pay, or think your services are worth far before you even approached him.

The one thing you want to do is prequalify the work before you begin. You'll learn about problems and issues that are common as you go along. Make a check off sheet to makes notes about the condition of the carpet before cleaning, and expectations the person you're cleaning for should expect. Letting them know before is better than after the fact, because afterwards its an excuse. Have them sign this check off section so that they understand, and are fully aware. You can do this when you're going over pricing, having the signature means you agree on the price, and both understand the expectations.

Under promise and over delivery, but be honest and realistic.

 

[Doug Cox]

Roxy - I know you are in a band. Is that your full time job or is carpet cleaning, or something else? By now I would think you would have honed your skills. I believe you had a HM CDS, so if it is running correctly, cleaning carpet should not be a problem. You MUST get the carpet as dry as possible when your are dealing with stains, especially on olefin, otherwise you are going to deal with reoccurring stains. You made a deal to clean these places for a specified price, and I would have returned for a reclean if I felt it could be my fault. Remember, just because a product is made for carpet cleaning doesn't mean it is of any quality. Invest in quality chemicals and you might have better luck.

 

[FB7777]

Tell him to pay or you are going to run a hose in the window and dump piss water in the carpet.

this thread you're threatening piss water, in another you called some wife's husband pussy whipped after blasting her for arguing about charging $50 for Scotchgard

did you suffer head trauma since I met you in Nashville?

wtf is with you lately?

he already was paid for the gig , the guy wants him to perform a re-clean for free

did you forget how to read?

 

[gimmeagig]

I used my Hydramaster CDS machine at about 215 F, 400 psi.
I pre vacuumed and then pre sprayed everything with a mixture of Prochem Olefin pre-clean, oxy plus and a citrus booster.
The rinse I used is Prochem All Fiber Deep Rinse which is supposed to be good for Olefin at 6 gph mixture.I had to do multiple passes and pump a lot of water through the carpet to get it clean.The pad under the Olefin was relatively thin so I thought that was OK to do. I tried to do a really good job and even though I wasn't getting paid that well, I still wasn't cutting any corners.
I immediately put dryers into the rooms but like I mentioned there were still workers in the house when I left, finishing different projects.
By the way I got a nasty e-mail from this guy and I told him to get lost but I'm very concerned now with the fact that it turned out the way it did.
Are there magic potions or tricks for really filthy Olefin?

 

[renegade_cowboy]

I offer a 30 day guarantee with my cleaning. You should of gone back at no charge and charge enough so its worth your time.

 

[Hoody]

I like CTI's Extreme Clean, others like Prochem's Powerburst. There are a lot of heavy hitters out there for heavy soiled olefin. All fiber deep clean is a great rinse for olefins, it has anti-wicking agents in it, and its an emulsifier.

 

[Doug Cox]

I don't think any HM CDS reaches 215, so I would check your gauge. lol. IMO, the pressure is too high, but that might depend upon what wand you use. Maybe your wand is the problem. Which one are you using? I've always used a Hydra Hoe and it has always done a great job with my new machine and with my HM CDS..

 

[gimmeagig]

Roxy - I know you are in a band. Is that your full time job or is carpet cleaning, or something else? By now I would think you would have honed your skills. I believe you had a HM CDS, so if it is running correctly, cleaning carpet should not be a problem. You MUST get the carpet as dry as possible when your are dealing with stains, especially on olefin, otherwise you are going to deal with reoccurring stains. You made a deal to clean these places for a specified price, and I would have returned for a reclean if I felt it could be my fault. Remember, just because a product is made for carpet cleaning doesn't mean it is of any quality. Invest in quality chemicals and you might have better luck.

Hi Doug,
I'm still in a band but it is no longer my profession just a hobby.In the fast few years I have had plenty of practice doing my own rentals and a few jobs for friends usually with really good results, but I am just now starting to turn this into my real job.So even though I have been here on this forum for a while I know there is a lot I can learn from you guys.I posted earlier how I cleaned that house, let me know if there's something I could have done better.
I had a bad feeling when I saw that people were still working inside the house. In fact they were walking on the carpet after I cleaned it and I mentioned to the guy who hired me that this was not good.He was more concerned with his work than the results of mine.Else I probably would have offered to leave my dryers hooked up overnight.
So combine that with the fact that I had a hard time getting paid ( forgotten checkbook, check's in the mail etc) that is why I didn't offer a free re-clean.
On top of that when I showed up on time with my truck to look how I could make it right, he showed me complete disrespect by letting me stand there like I had nothing else to do for close to 15 minutes while he was talking to someone on the phone.I felt like getting into my truck and drive away right then and probably should have.

 

[MerCrewser]

Trashed carpet can wick back, especially olefin. You're being too hard on yourself. Nothing is wrong with your technique except you did to much for to little. Those rental properties have been beat to death, possibly flooded, pet/human spots etc etc. Forget it and move on. Don't do work for unprofessional dirty people. Common rookie mistake.

 

[gimmeagig]

I don't think any HM CDS reaches 215, so I would check your gauge. lol. IMO, the pressure is too high, but that might depend upon what wand you use. Maybe your wand is the problem. Which one are you using? I've always used a Hydra Hoe and it has always done a great job with my new machine and with my HM CDS..

I changed out the thermostat in my truck to a hotter one and once I did that it went from 195 to 215. Of course I know that at the wand it's a different story.I don't know who makes my wand. It probably is not the greatest. It came with the truck.12" with a 1 1/2" hose 2 jets. I stuck a greenglide on it and because I know about the limitations of my machine I think that's about as big as I can to go without loosing too much heat. I like working with it because it is not too cumbersome.

 

[rhino1]

The guy is a jackass, who cares what he thinks. I have learned that slumlords NEVER, ever seem to have their checkbooks with them.

If you gave him that good of a price, the terms should have been cash, ON THE SPOT... otherwise, no deal.

You most likely did nothing wrong, you didn't stain the carpet, you ATTEMPTED to remove it, as far as a bad smell, deodorizing wasn't part of the deal. Olefin wicks back like crazy, that's the nature of cheap carpet. When I do a residential job, I always tell the customer that spots may reappear after a couple of days and explain to them the issue with olefin. Most already know... no real magic bullet, but leaving behind a bottle of spot remover saves you from the minor callbacks.

 

[John Watson]

Hey Roxey,
On any heavely soiled carpet I alway explain before the job starts that there might be a wick-back problem, I do this regaurdless the fiber, It is their fault, You will do the best you can do and if by chance it does wick back, you will return and re clean for 50% of orriginal cost, I have been doing it this way for over 30 years. I also explain It's not my fault the carpet is so dirty.. and they are not my spots that are coming back... This prepares them that you are going to do the best you can, but things are out of your control and as a part of your guarantee you are coming back for 1/2 to reclean.. This is settled before the job starts...

When I go back and reclean I take my 175 rotary with a pad, my Cimex with pads, or my argonaut towel machine and lightly encap. you don't need to add more water, especialy on an olifin and have it wick back again. Hope this helps explain how to set up your next on.

John

PS Ido this on resi, commercil, and industrial cleaning jobs..

 

[lance]

I don't think you handled the situation very well.....you should have listened to your insticts and ran away.

Think of this as practice for the future. You did a good job and any damp carpet being walked on right away with look dirty the next day. And he was a jerk when payment was due so he got a better deal than he should have. Mark this one as done.

The wand is very important because it is the only thing linking the carpet and your TM. You have to use it everyday so get the best one possible. No matter what the cost, it is an investment not an expense. Buy one of Cobb's four jet 12 inch wand that is at least 1 and 3/4 in diameter. Dont worry about how hot your TM gets, concentrate everything at the carpet. You can use 2.5 inch hose and a 2 inch whip with a higher flow wand and get great results.

A step that many CC'ers don't use is dwell time. Put a strong PS on the extra dirty ones and let it work for 20 minutes (agitation helps too) so that it can emulsify the dirt and oil in the carpet. Then flush it out really good with a wand that makes your job easier.

Have a great day.

 

[Steve Toburen]

Hey Roxey,
On any heavely soiled carpet I alway explain before the job starts that there might be a wick-back problem, I do this regaurdless the fiber, It is their fault, You will do the best you can do and if by chance it does wick back, you will return and re clean for 50% of orriginal cost, I have been doing it this way for over 30 years. I also explain It's not my fault the carpet is so dirty.. and they are not my spots that are coming back... This prepares them that you are going to do the best you can, but things are out of your control and as a part of your guarantee you are coming back for 1/2 to reclean.. This is settled before the job starts...

When I go back and reclean I take my 175 rotary with a pad, my Cimex with pads, or my argonaut towel machine and lightly encap. you don't need to add more water, especialy on an olifin and have it wick back again. Hope this helps explain how to set up your next on.

John

PS I do this on resi, commercil, and industrial cleaning jobs..

Lot's of good suggestions on this thread, Roxy. (And a few wacko ones too.) John's procedure above is one of the best for the future. Don't let the customer's problem become your problem.

Another danger signal for me would have been the traffic during and after the cleaning. You have no idea what happened on those clean carpets after you left. So that is like a free pass to the jerk customer to abuse your guarantee. Once again, the key here is simple- COMMUNICATION but at the right time. Before they complain it is called PRE-QUALIFYING the job. After they complain the very same words will be viewed as a pathetic EXCUSE. It is all in your timing.

So I would have stated what John did above and then added, "In fact, if I do the carpets now right in the middle of construction I can't even offer the 50% off return privilege. I will guarantee that immediately after I clean the carpets will look great. With all the construction traffic I can't say what they will look like an hour later. Oh and by the way- unless you want to go the full bore deodorization route for urine, which I can tell you it would be cheaper to replace the carpets then, I can't promise you there won't still be odor after I clean."

So there you go- now he owns not only the slum dwellings but also the problems along with them.

Steve Toburen
http://www.SFS.JonDon.com

PS What to do now? Learn from it and move on. I seldom say this but I would fire the customer. (Normally I say work with a complaining customer and they will often become a Turbo Cheerleader for Life. But not this guy.) Don't let it take you down and implement changes from here on. Frankly the whole nightmare will be worth it as part of your Business Development Process also called in non-guru-speak the "school of hard knocks".

PPS Heavily soiled olefin will almost always wick back in places. Follow John's suggestion above always on all pigged out carpets. At worst the customer will say, "Well, Roxy did warn me about this!" At best you will be a hero!

On edit while I am thinking about it: From a moral and (dare I use this word on MB?) "ethical" standpoint whether I returned for a free re-clean had nothing to do with if I "made money" on the initial job. My criteria was simple. Was the customer unhappy? I so, back I went UNLESS I had already decided to fire the client. (In twenty years I "fired" less than 10 customers.)

 

[idreadnought]

I got the answer for you. You screwed up big time and this is how you fix it. Fire that worthless pos customer! There are good customers and bad customers, good companies and bad companies, leave the bad customers for the bad companies.

 

[The Great Oz]

I'll pile on to the mistake of taking the job for too little money. It can work if you look at it as cheap education; you didn't really make any money but you learned something. In the future you can prequalify and not clean while other work is being done, and go back to do a reclean within a few days for free even if the spot looks new. That free reclean is part of driving home the lesson.

Otherwise, your tools are fine and your choice of products and method are quite good. Wicking can happen to anyone, and oily spots are more of a problem with polypropylene carpet, but if you're often having to reservice poly carpet you probably just need to slow down on your strokes to remove more soil and moisture. Also, an Airpath is worth the money to accelerate drying in places where you think you might have a problem. It is more economical than returning to clean or going back over the carpet with a pad machine.

Good luck with building your business for real.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I'd have probably at least went back to see the problem, I like to know what it looks like before I justify my work.

Many times people exaggerate, it may not be as bad as he stated.

On the other hand for what ever reason (slow drying, spills not completely rinsed out, tracking after cleaning, new spills, or what ever) it's possible to get results that are less than desired for the service.

I'd hate to be defending the latter when I should just be re-servicing it. :shock:

 

[gimmeagig]

I got a really nasty e-mail from the guy last night how I did a crappy job and that 5.- would be too much for a re clean etc...and I was wondering whether I should respond.
I ended up just restating that I'm sorry he's unhappy but in light of all the facts ( condition of the carpet, people walking on it right away, trouble getting paid) to offer a re-clean of the house for 30.- was more than reasonable. I then finished up by saying that that offer no longer stands.
I hope that will be the end of it.
I've learned a lot from this situation and your comments. Pre-qualifying a job and a customer,using my instincts, communication with the customer about potential problems ahead of time ( in writing), not bidding a job too cheap, how to deal with re-cleans effectively and also that it's OK to walk away from plain undesirable customers(like slumlords).So much information here and I thank you all for taking the time.

 

[wabassguy1]

I totally agree about getting it dry.. makes a huge difference..You should try using a Rotovac 360I on it.. that will get it alot dryer then a wand.. and will get those stains out much better to..

Let me know if you want to try one.. I got some screaming deals on them right now.


Brian
brianw@rotovac.com
888-768-6822 ext 115

 

[XTREME1]

that will get it alot dryer then a wand

Really :roll:

I would have explained if came to you sooner with these issue it would have been much easier to resolve. With people coming in and out and not following your directions upon leaving that you can n ot reclean for free, tell him sorry and offer him the reclean at the real price.

Next time give your cutomsers a form stating what is the expected outcome fo your work is while pointing out trouble areas on the form.

 

[TimP]

Ok here is my BDCC'er opinion.

1. We established you didn't charge enough. Charging enough will get you away from scumb bags. I kept increasing my base charge until I got away from doing crappy jobs. You should too, unless you enjoy doing them for what you charge.

2. You established that the carpet wasn't satisfactory afterwards.
You should reclean it at no charge or give back the money for that particular job. 1/2 the job = 50 bucks. You pick what you want to do, satisfy them or give him his money back.

3. The advice is above good for cleaning olefin. You may have to lower pressure if you have a wand that points it's jets straight down. Moisture is your enemy with olefin. Extra dry passes are a must for many. And an olefin specific cleaner can help because they are specialized to cut oils, which is what olefin loves.


BTW a Hydramster CDS can put out more than 215 with the salsa system, depending on flow rates and time for recovery and weather outside. 230 is possible.

 

[gasaxe]

if its a trashed rental i give the customer a price and put the risk back on them. Most of my customers know my reputation for high quality cleaning and that im gonna do my best to make it look good. If the first shot doesnt get desireable results then either they pay for another cleaning or rip the carpet up......unless i screwed up which in that case i would make it right. From the sound of it you did your best to clean it. I use to try and give some guidance on rental property in years past but not anymore, give em a price tell them you will do your best and until you establish a relationship with a person it wouldnt be a bad idea to require payment when you show up to do the work. They pay at the counter when they go to the store or the restaurant so why not the same with you. I have rental property account that gets a "deal" because the door is ALWAYS unlocked power is on with ac or heat running when i get there and i get a check in 5 days or less... If i clean for a renter i ALWAYS get paid now unless they are a repeat.

 

[Joel D]

He's just a scumbag. Many in the rental business for some reason. I think your right-they tracked all over it. I liked your email response.

 

[gimmeagig]

that will get it alot dryer then a wand

Really :roll:

I would have explained if came to you sooner with these issue it would have been much easier to resolve. With people coming in and out and not following your directions upon leaving that you can n ot reclean for free, tell him sorry and offer him the reclean at the real price.

Next time give your cutomsers a form stating what is the expected outcome fo your work is while pointing out trouble areas on the form.

I'm just getting going with the literature and forms and all the other stuff for my business.
I have the logo, the truck lettering, B'ness cards, Invoices and a Flyer.
I already have the number and size of rooms, number of stairs, and soil condition on my invoice and I could hand write some disclaimers.But there is limited room for that. Maybe on most jobs that might be enough, but I can already see that a bit more explanation about warranty and what I will or will not do might be required to avoid potential problems with more difficult customers.
Could you please give me some ideas on how such a form should be structured and what items should be included on it? Should I have to have that printed as a carbon copy form or just get the customer's signature on a single sheet and keep it for my own records only? Do you guys always have the customer sign a form like that?

 

[Dolly Llama]

I've learned a lot .... Pre-qualifying a job and a customer,using my instincts, communication with the customer about potential problems ahead of time ( in writing), not bidding a job too cheap, how to deal with re-cleans effectively and also that it's OK to walk away from plain undesirable customers.

your equipment is fine...including your wand..it ain't the meAt, it's the motion....
Whether your technique is any good or not, i don't know..."most's" aren't though .
They have more probs with berbers and loop piles cause it's less forgiving of poor wand technique.

Never the less, if it was "our" job.... AND as described..ie..new jamoke, trashed/junky rental, too cheap to pay good money... the minute I knew there were yaucks walking all over a salvage rag while it's still damp, is the minute they get nothing from us as far as a redo

I think you did the right thing.
Cash the check, move on and don't look back


..L.T.A.