defoamer in solutions tank ???

[Scott Rogers]

The commercial job I am currently doing had a extreme amount of soap in the carpet. layers of soap. The Janitorial staff pad clean the halls and conference rooms about every night with grease Lightning and Betco dry foam. I could not find a measuring cup in the janitorial closet, so I imagine they use the glug glug method.

The loss of vacuum is instant. areas they haven't been maintaining (the offices) have no issues.
I have tried crystal defoamer, it helps but I still have a significant vac loss do to the foam.

What will are the possible issues of putting liquid haven't in the rinse tank so I have a steady supply of antifoam? What would be a good dilluton to a 5 gallon stock tank.

I can rinse with a acid too or just run the defoamer. i have used acids before here and doesn't seem to strip much out.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

The only defoamer that would not seriously impact your cleaning process is Foam Defense by Bridgepoint.

Conventional defoamer products are only going to make a mess of things.

 

[bob vawter]

Have i been asleep for forty years ...or shoudn't the defoamer in introduced to the WASTE TANK??????

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Before Bridgepoint's Foam Defense came along, yes Bawb it was in the Vac hose, waste tank, or powder sprinkled on the carpet.

The Foam defense is a product that can safely be added to prespray or emulsifier.

 

[Shane T]

Others may see it different but it seems to me that the biggest cause of vacuum loss is foam in the hose. I like to knock down the foam before it gets to the tank.
Shawn, what impact does a crystal defoamant have on the cleaning process?

 

[rhyde]

a bar of soap in a nylon stocking in filter basket

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

The bar soap trick does nothing for the greatest problem of foam in the vac hose drawing down vac efficiency.

 

[bob vawter]

Man i havn't had ta buy Defoamer in TWENTY YEARS......SuperClean is the cats ass...............

 

[Dolly Llama]

Same here, Shane.

Foam in the tank isn't a big deal until/unless it gets sucked into the blower.

Foam in the hoses is where vac performance is most lost

Donno how powdered defoamers effect pre-spray efficacy.
When needed, we sprinkle it down as we go.
So the pre-spray has already had dwell time.

Curious, Shawn, what "mess of things" do other liquid defoamers make?
Do mean in the TM plumbing, sol lines and jets?
Or that it mucks up cleaning efficacy if one was to add it to the emulsifier stock tank?

Thanks


..L.T.A.

 

[Scott Rogers]

There is enough soap in this carpet, There is no need to add more. I am trying to remove 20-25 bottles of grease lightning from around 6000 sq ft of hallways. If I can get there layers of soap out the dirt trapped between the layers of soap will come out too.

I do put crystal defoamer down, that buys me 1 pass then vac loss again.

What I need is a constant supply of defoamer in the vac hoses, I cant lay the crystal defoamer down thick enough. LOL

Bob, Super-clean isnt going to get this stuff out.

 

[GRHeacock]

My opinion- the problem is the detergent in the carpet, and it needs a defoamer on the carpet. Not in the waste tank or up the hose.

Apply a liquid defoamer directly to the carpet- dilute as needed- some trials will be needed to determine the right amount.

You need to kill the foam where it is generated- and that is at the carpet.

Don't worry about any "guarantee or warantee" of the carpet- it has long been lost due to the incorrect cleaning procedures.

And you certainly do not need to add more detergent to the carpet in the affected areas.

Gary

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Larry,

The problem is flocculates of antifoam accumulating at the surface of the detergent. The result is a near complete loss of the surfactants ability to form requisite micelles to emulsify oily soils. It is not a problem if the antifoam is introduced AFTER emulsification if done through the use of a properly applied and agitated prespray. Then the emulsifier being run through the machine acts a s a rinse of already emulsified soils and the flocculated antifoam. This is usually done as a powder formulation if topically applied to the carpet, and as a liquid if periodically introduced to the vacuum line, or as a liquid if added directly to the wastetank.

Or

Don't add the antifoam to the prespray unless you want to mess up the cleaning process.

The Bridgepoint product is the lone exception, providing a unique homogeneously dispersible silicone antifoam formulation for an aqeous liquid cleaning detergent medium and wherein the antifoam composition can be dispersed into the aqueous liquid detergent medium in order to form stable, relatively clear formulations having both controlled foaming behavior and good detergency. From what i've heard, the product uses a patented defoamer by Dow Corning.

 

[Art Kelley]

If a carpet is loaded with soap in whole or in areas from soapy detergents, I use Rinse Master from Chemeisters, either spraying it down or running it through my solution line. It kills the foam in your vac hose and allows you rinse clean the carpet. From their web site:


Rinse Master™
Old Residue Remover
. Rinse Master™ is a neutral rinse for removing
residues from manufacturing, vomit, pet accidents,
consumer spotting attempts, extermination chemicals,
old carpet shampoo and excess steam detergent the
other guy left behind that can cause shaded areas,
dullness or even spots. Most of these residue-caused
traumas are easy to reverse if cleaned with Rinse Master
instead of your regular cleaning product for one cycle.
Many cleaners tell of trying "everything" on a problem
carpet and then trying Rinse Master. They discover that
when the culprit residues are removed the carpets are
soft, new looking and don't even require further
cleaning.

 

[Kelly]

im thinking that there is a dfc product that chemspec has that works with out a defoamer....im thinking its dfc 105 but im not sure ...youd probably have to check with them on that tomorrow when they are open, or call us

 

[steve r]

i pour a couple ounces in my hose at the wand when i run into foaming issues. keeps it clear all the way to and into the tank. ive even poured it right into the wand but it didnt make much difference. you can also do this before you pull he hose too so you dont have to carry it in.

remember i run a bane so foaming kills my vac quick as sh#%.

 

[The Great Oz]

We clean some carpet that has severe foaming issues (like the "bubble room" at the Science Center) and have pre-sprayed the carpet with an acid rinse, sprinkled crystal defoamer on the carpet, and fed crystal defoamer into the hose periodically. Ankle high foam will take some time to cut through, but this seems to work.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Shawn, I thought silicone based anti foam products are not to be used on 5th generation nylons. Is the Bridgepoint one an exception?

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I've heard that issue discussed.

However, nobody can provide a valid mill reference for defoamers being a problem for 5th generation.

Remember, don't confuse silicone based defoamers with silicone protectants, or with cationic emulsifiers. All three are not related on this subject.

The Bridgepoint product is not a problem, either.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Thanks Shawn for clearing that up.

 

[KevinD]

If it's a serious residue problem forget about defoamers.
As Art said use Chemeister's product called Rinsemaster, it is made for this kind of problem.
Use it as a prespray and rinse with it. It will neutralize the residue and rinse away with ease.
Defoamer will not do anything for the problem except help keep your hoses clear.

 

[Blue Monarch]

Sounds to me like keeping the hoses clear is the main problem here. I haven't tried BP's product yet, but I think that's the solution with the lowest PITA factor.