Diesel TM

ruff

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Ofer Kolton
Currently, Prochem's Apex is one of the few diesel slide in (Kubota diesel engine) on the market.
What is your experience specifically with the Apex and or with any diesel slide inns.

I know there is a small trade off in heat which is fine with me, however:
Do you find these engines to be more durable and dependable?
Any advantages or disadvantages?

My next truck is going to be a diesel and I sure like the idea of using the same gas tank.

As usual, your hard earned opinions and experience is appreciated.
 

hogjowl

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Why do these manufacturers make a diesel model that is less powerful than their top performing gas machines?

They HAVE to know that folks who want to mount their new rigs in a diesel vehicle are wanting dual wand, top heat and superior vacuum performance ... yet they continue to put lesser performers in them.
 

ultraclean

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My last machine was an Apex D very good Machine plenty of heat, the biggest reason I got rid of it. Very DIRTY every second day would have to strip all hoses and wash them due to the carbon build up took me a while to work out why every where I ran a hose I would leave a dirty black mark. Cleaned up easy enough but not the look you want. also changed our uniform to black shirts as buy the end of the first job it looked like we only washed once a week. and only owned the one shirt.

Also turned the inside of the van a very dirty shade of Yellow. Never had these issues with a petrol machine. Legend before Apex and Everest 650 now.
 

ruff

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Actually, I do not want double wand and I find the heat perfectly acceptable. I do not want an over built over hyped over......machine.
I do care about the other things i mentioned.
Any knowledge about that?
 

ruff

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Andrew,
That's interesting never thought about that (being a CDS guy all these years.)
Did you exhaust the engine out through the bottom of the van? Is it possible?

How durable was the machine? Did you find the diesel engine to be any more durable/hasslefree then regular gas engines?
Any difference in maintenance?
Thanks
Ofer
 

Larry Cobb

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Ofer;

We are building a 26 HP diesel powered TM with a #4MP blower.

It will be one of the new Kohler/Lombardini engines, so service is available nationwide.

Diesels are designed to have the longest durability of any engine.

Larry
 
T

The Magician

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Turned the inside of your van yello?? Just think of what it did to your lungs.
 

cu

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Daune is working on it right now
first test units should be ready round 2113 photos coming soon
it will have the first micro atom heating unit with 312degree heat with no back pressure
 

AshleyMckendree

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Not to mention a diesel will use 2/3rds less fuel!

My V8 ford diesel uses less than HALF A GALLON PER HOUR. 0.38 GPH is my best estimate, All while overdriving a #5 from tranny pto.
My 18hp Briggs powered Avenger i keep on hand as a backup uses 1.9gph.


...Oh yeah, and you can run your Apex on Free VEGGIE oil!
 

ACE

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Has anyone set up a direct drive in a diesel? I want to set up a direct drive in a Dodge Sprinter. I know it would be a pain to do but if it worked it would last forever and I would have a ton of space in the van.
 

ultraclean

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Ofer,
No we didn’t have the exhaust plumbed thru the floor, yes it would be possible but you would need to mount the machine further back in the van taking up extra space. The machine its self was very reliable I know a number of guys here that are running the Apex D and have had no problems with them. a far a s fuel it ran at about 3.8 ltrs per hour. and for servicing the service intervals are the same as for a petrol machine every 100 hours.(Prochem that is).


Thanks Andrew
 

AshleyMckendree

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Is the sprinter engine trans-verse mounted?

If it is that would present a problem with direct drive, although in theory you could install and 90 degree angle gear box at the front of the engine then run the shaft off of that.


Also, I made a direct drive on my ford diesel using a butler shaft. wasn't any more work than the gassers Ive done.
 

Gary Bethel

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When I had my carpet cleaning business I had both diesel and gas carpet cleaning machines. From management point of view, diesel in the bigger units is good way to go. Very reliable over very long periods.
The main diesels in the slide in were Perkins, Kubota [both 3 and 4 cylinder models] and Isuzu. [Both 3 and 4 cylinder]. They just went on and on.

As far as the question as to why the manufacturers use smaller hp engines in their diesel models. Can’t speak for other manufacturers, but can give you the experience with PowerClean. Take the Genesis. In it’s gas version it runs a 68hp engine. The diesel version runs a 52hp Isuzu diesel. On paper it is less hp, but in actual fact you will not notice any performance lacking due to the less hp. In fact it is around the other way.
If running one wand I can have that diesel ticking over not too much above idle at 1500rpm’s and load it up and it just keeps on going. You can work it all day long at that rpm and have good heat. But if you want sizzling heat with one wand, take the revs up to 2000rpm. 2500rpm for dual wand. You can take it to 2850 rpm if needed. But we find our customers are running it under 2000rpm. At these rpm’s the economy is even better again. You will defiantly not be lacking heat with the Genesis Diesel. In fact it may have more heat than the gas version and that is saying something as the gas Genesis has always been known for it’s high solution cleaning temps.
The point is the diesel has enormous torque. At 52hp compared to 68hp, it goes in favor of the diesel.
Isuzu have an oil change interval of 500 hours.
If you ever get to check out the Diesel Genesis, do two things. After it has been running for a few hours, put your hands on the cover and surround panels. You will notice something different to most machines. The panels are not hot, they are cool. There is very little ambient heat build up around the diesel Genesis. Second thing to do is put your hand on the main frame. Virtually no vibration, which is unique for a diesel.

Yes, you can duct the mufflers through the floor. Both through the side or rear mount.
Jim may come on later and show some pictures of how this is done in rear or side mounts.

Andrew, if you have that much diesel soot around your machine, I would say you have a diesel glaze up on your pistons.

Gary.
 

hogjowl

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It was the blowers and pumps I was talking about. I forget which company it is, but the last time I checked (Prochem, I think) had a gas unit that had a larger blower and a pump that put out more pressure than did their diesel unit.

What is the logic of that?
 

TimP

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I'm really leaning towards the Diesel Genesis as my next truck mount. Hell if I could get out of my van and into a diesel genesis and have the same payment right now I may do it. Of course I'd want to test that bad boy out for myself before I decided to see if it would do what I want it to. Since there aren't many real world testimonials that I know of.


Sounds like it will do what I want though, dual wand and keep heat. Hell even if you have to add LP to get the heat, for dual wanding, that I want it would be worth it.
 

Walt

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Genesis DXT. Just got it home. I'll post pictures and give a review in a few days. First run today was very favorable.
 

Jim Bethel

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Good to hear you got it home safe Walt.

How did you like the sprinter over that distance? Nice to drive aren't they. One of our guys is currently driving one of them 3 days south of where our office is to attend the Ausclean (Connections type) show over here that starts on the weekend. Out of all the commercial vehicles we have owned, they are the nicest to drive long (or short) distances in.

Jim
 

Walt

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The Sprinter has a nicer ride than my Jeep Grand Cherokee. Quiet and smooth.

I have some ideas for a wrap but haven't started the process. Any ideas on where to get it done?
 

Pmatte

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Nice looking rig.Would like to see photos of the interior...when you get a chance.By the way,how come you didn't have the Cleaner Supply Warehouse do this,aren't they a Power Clean distributor also?

Patrick
 

rhyde

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rhyde
Walt said:
I have some ideas for a wrap but haven't started the process. Any ideas on where to get it done?


I have/ had a brochure sent to me by someone local if I can find it I’ll post the info
 

ruff

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Ofer Kolton
Andrew, thanks for the reply.

Gary Bethel, thanks for you reply as well.
How come there is such a difference in the maintenance schedule between the Issuzu and the other ones (If I understood correctly the others are every 100 hours and the Issuzu every 500 hours.)
Any of the diesel engines better then the others?

Thanks
Ofer
 

Gary Bethel

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In Australia the main two diesel engines used in slide for carpet cleaning equipment are the Isuzu and Kubota. Both very reliable. The Isuzu is heavier duty. Isuzu is big in Australia and has a big following. Isuzu stationary diesels have a completely different division and outlets to Isuzu trucks.

I think that the slide in carpet cleaning equipment manufacturers are saying earlier oil changes than stated by the engine and blower manufacturers because they may feel most of their machines are confined in a van with lots of gear around them. This gives poor ventilation thus more ambient heat around the engine and blower.
Just look at the Roots Blower manual. If you use their Root oil in normal operational conditions, their oil is good for 8000hours. Yet most manufacturers using Roots Blowers are saying change the oil at every 1000 hours. Kohler is recommending the water-cooled Kohler engines have the oil changed at 200 hours. Yet most slide in carpet cleaning manufacturers using this engine are saying change the oil every 50 hours. This in both cases is due to higher ambient temps. Remember oil is cheap.

But I checked with Isuzu in Australia regards oil change intervals on the model Isuzu engine in the diesel Genesis. Isuzu say that they are happy with the 500-hour oil change interval as designated in their Isuzu engine manual. As mentioned in an earlier post, the thing that makes the diesel Genesis so unique is that it is one slide in machine that has got around the issue of high ambient temperatures that is normally associated with a slide in. This is really important in Australia.

Gary.
 

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