dynaforce concentrated carpet cleaning detergent

[kevinj61]

I tried the dynaforce concentrated carpet cleaning detergent, this is what I did, I use a mytee M5 portable--I mixed the dynaForce using just hot tap water which was 140 degree out of the faucet, ( i did test it with thermometer)- put it in my solution tank--hooked up my rotovac 360i with carpet brush head and applied to carpet withOUT the vacs turned on, worked it into the carpet of one room, when done with that room i turned on the vacs and just went back and extracted it still using the carpet brush head, the result was extremly good I must say, now that was just a scrap piece of carpet so that is as far as I went, if it had been an actual customers carpet I most likely would have added a rinse to my solution tank,hooked up my regular wand and give it a quick rinse which i'm sure would help clean it even a little more, bring the Ph level back down some and have a nice clean residue free carpet--keep in mind I did not use a pre spray at all-- the soil level of the carpet on a scale of 1 to 10 in my opinion was about a 6.
Feel free to draw your own conclusion--here is mine--No high heat (water was only 140 when put into solution tank and even less than that by the time it hit the carpet, i'll go on the low side and say it was about 100 degree hitting the carpet, a 40 degree drop in temp) Great agitation using the 360i with carpet brush head and carpet came out great-looked new again. So is high heat really nessesary? I don't think so if you have really good agitation which will more than compensate for lack of high heat-- As far as chems go--I think any halfway decent chem used with at least 100 degree or above water (when hitting the carpet) along with good to very good agitation will get the job done most of the time--I think good agitation is a little more important than high heat, don't get me wrong you still need heat, we all know heat will always work better than no heat at all, just saying you don't need to be hitting the carpet with 200 plus degree water to do a good job

 

[sweendogg]

You do what you just did and you are goign to end up overwetting carpets and leaving them wet for days.

Detergents are designed to penetrate and flush away soils. What you were trying to do was shampoo the carpets like they did years ago when high heat wasn't available.

ALL CLEANING adheres to a simple concept called TACT TIME AGITATION CHEMISTRY TEMPERATURE. All four of these concepts combine to help us seperate suspend and remove soils from any surface. If you decrease one you have to increase the other to maintain effectivenes. Shampoo methods make up for less heat with increase agitation. But actuel shampoos are designed to foam and suspend soils with out overwetting.

Presprays are also designed to suspend soils and keep them towards the surface.

As I see it you'll get better cleaning results with the equipment you have by either prespraying the carpet first with a quality prespray, use your carpet brush on your rotovac to prescrub the carpet after you preprsay and then use either a detergent or an acid rinse agent to extract with.

Don't get caught up in pH of the carpet too much.. in certain situations you can use a detergent rinse which will help loosen and remove more soils during extraction compared to an acid, and if you keep your dilutions correctly you'll have just as little residue as if you had used a rinse agent.

That being said, some detergents are more prone to leaving residue behind then others.

The dynaforce detergent is one of those detergents that likes to resoil quicker than others.

 

[ruff]

just saying you don't need to be hitting the carpet with 200 plus degree water to do a good job

You are absolutely right, you don't.
However if you do it will increase productivity and save time and extra steps.
Therefore you can do more jobs per day with less wear on your body.

What's that worth to you?

And also everything David said above was absolutely right.

TACT + BW (body wear, that is your body wearing out, buddy.)

Think about it.

 

[Bill Bruders]

The dynaforce detergent is one of those detergents that likes to resoil quicker than others.[/quote]

I'm curious about your source for this statement. Dynaforce is formulated with the latest surfactant technologies which actually have the least likelyhood of promoting any resoiling. The surfactants in Dynaforce as an example when dry are a powder which is neither soil or oil attracting and will easily remove by vacuuming unlike older formulations which are promoted other manufacturers. These older formulations use surfactants that when dry are sticky and will promote resoiling of the fibers. As for PH dynaforce has that covered as well. Now I respect your right to use whatever product you prefer but I blanket statement such as this seems a bit unfair and is misleading.

 

[joeynbgky]

I have the whole Dynaforce system............ I have not used it yet............. This is why......... It says if you use the extraction detergent you must then use their rinse to adjust the PH. andthen go over the carpet again...... That is alot of extra work.......... So i have not used it. I would like to but, why would I want to basically clean the carpet twice? Or do they just put that on the label to scare us? I would really liek to try it, but the directions are scary... Bill please help! I have asked this before and have not gotten any answers.

 

[Johnnyone]

I have used dynchem chems for a while now. Have been very satisfied with results. On j61 post he did'nt mentioned the mix ratios for application. ?? Sweetdog is right on, thanks. Read label on container or call manufacture for questions..

 

[sweendogg]

Bill the source is myself... you sent out all those samples to try when your first introduced it. I have a heavily trafficed room at my parents house that is great for testing out products because the traffic is steady year round, and they don't change what they do to clean the hard surface around the room. So i try differnt detergents and cleaning agents and let the room set every 3 months. I can then judge how quickly the room resoils.

Now perhaps I should preface that when I tested the dynaforce I used the recommend dilution..(in my opinion only half the dilution is ever needed for most jobs. I didn't use any other cleaning agent with it. I simply used it as an extraction detergent through my truckmount. I liked the fragrance, and it mixed well into a stock solution. And it did not resoil in a matter of days. It simply had a higher affinity for soils after 3 months as it was noticably dirtier compared to other tests with similar extraction detergents such as Formula 90, or Dry Slurry. Of course soap free from masterblend performed with flying colors as well. But as a stand alone cleaning agent struggled a little more with the oily soils.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

The concept of cleaning a carpet with an alkaline detergent, then rinsing again with an acidic rinse is still mentioned in label copy and in some industry training formats.

To make sure everyone knows my perspective, my father was teaching that sort of cleaning method back in the early 90s. Nearly 20 years later, I can tell you that we've learned a lot since then, and that we no longer teach cleaning in that way at Pembertons.

An alkaline cleaning detergent, when formulated properly and used according to directions, should not need any follow up acidic treatment unless there is a reason that a specific carpet needs a pH change. No carpet manufacturer speaks to the need to use a third step like this, and in most cases such a third step, while changing the pH level on the carpet, usually ADDS more surfactant residue, and does not eliminate it.

(My next comments require full disclosure: I sell Sapphire Scientific chemicals. I also have a great deal of respect for David Sweeney, and dislike contradicting him.)

I have used Sapphire Scientific Dynaforce for over a year to clean a local medical center, a large accounting firm, two local restaurants, and all of my rental properties. I have not seen evidence that the product promotes resoiling. I previously used Dry Slurry in places, and am familiar with how it responds in similar situations.

And no, I don't acid rinse afterward. I use acid rinsing (instead of an alkaline detergent, never as a third step) in some upholstery cleaning applications, and if I think that a pre-existing condition in the carpet requires reduction of pH as a part of a correction process.

I have also had great experience with Soap Free (and yes I sell that stuff too..........so I'm not unbiased here either) David is right: It just doesn't have quite the same "kick" when it comes to attacking oily soils though.

 

[sweendogg]

Again I should have prefaced as my experience Jim. No test outside of a lab is always full proof so who knows what could have contributed to the resoiling besides the chemical alone. I was more concerned in the above post about the orginal posters attempts procedure. And didn't further explain myself.

I was just kinda of shocked during my test to find that the carpet had a gray cast after three months after I used the dynaforce detergent, compared to others. But again I did use it full strength and find that even at half of the dilution most of the detergents work very well.. I try to stick to powders only as well which as Bill prescribed are supposed to dry back to a powder.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Dave

I think I can speak for Bill that he appreciates this kind of feedback, even if he will sometimes challenge specific statements.

I've got some polyester carpet that I keep in my service department for testing carpet protector durability. I think I'm going to do some more side by side tests with "in tank detergents" on that stuff based on this thread.

Great discussion!

 

[Bill Bruders]

Thanks to everyone for thier contributions to this thread. I'm going to challenge our chemistry team to look at the directions and dilutions based on this feedback and do some testing as well. I openly admit my bias here but I have used several products in my own home and of course now use Dynaforce in the hallway to the kids room since they seem to spill stuff just to keep my busy. I haven't had resoiling issues from the Dynaforce in these areas. Once again thanks to all.

Bill

 

[kevinj61]

So let me get this striaght, you guys think the dynoForce carpet cleaning detergent is a good stand-alone cleaner to run thru your extractor. porty or TM but perfer to mix it less than container states. Do you all agree that any cleaning agent that you run thru your machine would work better if applied with good agitation such as 360i with carpet brush-I think that's a safe statement to make. As to weather or not it promotes faster resoiling, well you gotta take into consideration several factors, like do we really now what goes on inside a custy's house once you've left, do they take there shoes of when comming into the house and if not do they even at least have a matt that they wipe there feet on before comming into the house, do they vacuum on a regular basis to name a few etc.. etc..
someone mentioned i was trying to shampoo the carpet, well not at all, if i wanted to shampoo a carpet i'd just use my rotary 175 with a carpet brush and solution tank mounted on it, and i would use "Carpet Shampoo" and be done with it. I'm a fan of "agitation"
So tell me whats wrong with using my mytee m5 extractor with 360i & carpet brush with vac motors turned off to apply the dynoforce, then immediately going back over it with vacs on to extract it after doing a room--think david said i would be leaving carpets wet for days-well 1st of all i don't saturate the carpet as i'm applying the dynoforce, 2nd i don't rush through my dry passes i'll do three of em if i have to to make sure i've gotten it all out, I do have heat, very good agitation, chems, and some dwell time, i find that with excellent agitation you don't need as much dwell time. Now i don't do every carpet this way every time either. It depends on the job and condition of the carpet, sometimes i'll pre spray with a pre spray, agitate with the stupid thing at end of stick (Thats just what i call it) give it some dwell time then extract with end zone or something similar

 

[ruff]

Again I should have prefaced as my experience Jim. No test outside of a lab is always full proof so who knows what could have contributed to the resoiling besides the chemical alone.
I was just kinda of shocked during my test to find that the carpet had a gray cast after three months after I used the dynaforce detergent, compared to others. But again I did use it full strength and find that even at half of the dilution most of the detergents work very well.. I try to stick to powders only as well which as Bill prescribed are supposed to dry back to a powder.

What would have made your test a lot more valid, David, would have been a side by side cleaning in the same area with the two different detergents, done at the same time.

I've done that at my home a few times and that is why I stopped doing the acid rinse a long time ago.

I cleaned the same area perpendicular to the traffic area. One side with Dry Slurry or Soap Free alone, the other side with a pre spray, agitation and an acid rinse. Tested three times and got consistent results: At the end of each cleaning there was no difference in look, the acid rinsed side had a softer hand, the side cleaned with the detergent alone stayed clean longer.

Those were my consistent results at home. I adjusted my cleaning, and it has been conclusively proved by thousands of cleanings at clients' homes ever since (10 years.)

Oh.......and less call backs and reappearing stains, hardly any!

I guess the proof is in the pudding.

 

[joeynbgky]

Kevin............. Your suppose to agitate your pre-spray! NOT your detergent! Are you serious? come on? You are doing way to many un-necessary steps! The 360 was not built for you to use it that way! Maybe you should read the manual or take some classes on carpet cleaning..

 

[kevinj61]

Kevin............. Your suppose to agitate your pre-spray! NOT your detergent! Are you serious? come on? You are doing way to many un-necessary steps! The 360 was not built for you to use it that way! Maybe you should read the manual or take some classes on carpet cleaning..

Hey joey bet your getting a good laugh at my expense, LOL, I know your suppose to agitate the Pre Spray and I do, in my original post i stated that this is just something I tried as I always like to experment around a little here and there i did this at home, would never experment in a actual customers house-- can't tell ya how many different pre sprays and rinse's i've tried in different situations, just trying to find what I think works the best for me so that i can be as good as i can--but i always welcome advice from other cleaners, i've learned alot from others by using these forums their a great thing for all of us

 

[joeynbgky]

That's good to know Kevin........... I really glad you clarified that. lol

 

[sweendogg]

Kolfer: I've tried all of those.. I don't do it to compare but simply the resoil rates over time.. Most of the cleaning agnets used today will not have rapid resoiling if used correctly.. I'm more interested in long term.. I've done the side by side testing with the presprays vs presprays on the same jobs, and acid rinse vs detergent rinses. There is a time and place to use each.

The room I test on is simply to look at some longer term soil build up.

Kevin, the problem is this: Detergent or acid rinses are designed to flush away soiling that has already been suspended...

Now in light soiling conditions, you can get away with using detergent rinse only. But only through an extraction process. If you want to apply a detergent to agitate before extracting, it should be applied in such away that it doesn't penetrate the carpet. By applying with the rv, the plumbing is designed to inject and rinse and be immediatly extracted. Once the detergent and cleaning solution reaches the backing,, no number of dry passes can extract it. This is why subsurface extractors were designed and being used successfully. Presprays or even detergents CAN be applied but by sprayers that are designed to keep the cleaning solutions above the backing.

Now.. if one is using a prespray, you an cut your dilution of your extraction detergent or acid.. whatever it may be in half on most products and still be effective. The purpose of the rinse solutions to soften the water and lower the surface tension for more thorough flushing. A detergent rinse will add additional cleaning power in heavier soiling.

Its not new news that agitation will aid any cleaning agent. But if you are looking to save time then do the following: Apply a well formulated preconditioning agent.. Use your RV 360 with carpet brush to preagitate, then extract with a well formulated rinse agent allbeit detergent or acid. Although your still adding additional steps intended to be simplified with the 360.

The 360 was designed to incorporate agitation, and extraction into a single process thus saving you time even further while still providing great cleaning results.

 

[kevinj61]

Kolfer: I've tried all of those.. I don't do it to compare but simply the resoil rates over time.. Most of the cleaning agnets used today will not have rapid resoiling if used correctly.. I'm more interested in long term.. I've done the side by side testing with the presprays vs presprays on the same jobs, and acid rinse vs detergent rinses. There is a time and place to use each.

The room I test on is simply to look at some longer term soil build up.

Kevin, the problem is this: Detergent or acid rinses are designed to flush away soiling that has already been suspended...

Now in light soiling conditions, you can get away with using detergent rinse only. But only through an extraction process. If you want to apply a detergent to agitate before extracting, it should be applied in such away that it doesn't penetrate the carpet. By applying with the rv, the plumbing is designed to inject and rinse and be immediatly extracted. Once the detergent and cleaning solution reaches the backing,, no number of dry passes can extract it. This is why subsurface extractors were designed and being used successfully. Presprays or even detergents CAN be applied but by sprayers that are designed to keep the cleaning solutions above the backing.

Now.. if one is using a prespray, you an cut your dilution of your extraction detergent or acid.. whatever it may be in half on most products and still be effective. The purpose of the rinse solutions to soften the water and lower the surface tension for more thorough flushing. A detergent rinse will add additional cleaning power in heavier soiling.

Its not new news that agitation will aid any cleaning agent. But if you are looking to save time then do the following: Apply a well formulated preconditioning agent.. Use your RV 360 with carpet brush to preagitate, then extract with a well formulated rinse agent allbeit detergent or acid. Although your still adding additional steps intended to be simplified with the 360.

The 360 was designed to incorporate agitation, and extraction into a single process thus saving you time even further while still providing great cleaning results.

Hey Kolfer, thanks for your knowledgeable feedback.

here is what i normally do--pre spray with a pre spray of course--then i use to just use the carpet rake to agitate, then give some dwell time while i went off to vac another room or do something else--then run a rinse agent thru extractor to finish up

which is as i believe what most cleaners do.. then a few times i just put the pre spray into solution tank on my 175 rotary with carpet brush and applied and agitated it at the same time, works really well on a few nasty carpets that i have recently done, dwell time was alot less doing it that way due to such great agitation with the 175

then followed with a rinse solution in extractor---I've also just used my hydroforce sprayer to apply pre spray--then use the 175 to agitate--then the acid rinse with extractor

but that damm 175 weighs like 95 pounds and i don't always want to lug and carry that thing around, since i already also have the 360i with the normal carpet head i decided to purchase the carpet brush head as well and instead of using the heavy 175
figured i'd use the carpet brush head on the 360 which only weighs like 40 pounds to agitate the pre spray and while agitating the pre spray keep vac motors off, give a little dwell time then use acid rinse in extrator, so far every carpet i've done comes out great and have had no call backs,
i have called most customers back day after cleaning to do a follow up and make it a point to ask how long it took for carpets to dry, so far the longest dry time a cust has told me was 5 hours, but that was on a real nasty one that i did for a friend of a friend who told me upon my arrival that he hadn't cleaned his carpet in like ten years,, and yes i did say 10 years and i know i got that carpet wetter than i normally would have but is was really bad and i had to go over it a few times--also had alot of fun cleaning out my machine after that job--but other than that no cust has said over 4 hours to dry most say 3 to 4 hours--and I have not used any fans but have just purchased two of them which i will start using from now on, i'll do a room then set up a fan, do a second room and set up second fan, after the 3rd room i'll take fan from 1st room and set it up in 3rd room and so on.

I have just recently started to play around with some of the powderd detergents at home on my own carpets and used the blue dynoforce detergent--put it in my solution tank applied and agitated with 360 carpet brush with vacs off ( of course i was careful not to over wet or saturate the carpet) then went back over it after completing one room with the vacs turned on just to extract, it seemed to work very well and went pretty quick too, i guess i could have had the vac motors on while applying/agitating and it would have went even quicker with probably the same results--i am not trying to get away with not pre spraying 1st as i do realize
it is a nesessary step in the cleaning procedure especially on the real dirty ones..
Just wish there was just a real good cleaner that was safe to run thru your machine other than just a rinse agent--thats why i was
expermenting with the detergents which i figured would have more cleaning power than just an acid rinse chem.
thanks and sorry this was so long, your probably starting to fall asleep by now

 

[ruff]

It should have been: "Hey David, thanks for your knowledgeable feedback.

But I'll pass it along.

 

[ruff]

Kolfer: I've tried all of those.. I don't do it to compare but simply the resoil rates over time.. Most of the cleaning agnets used today will not have rapid resoiling if used correctly.. I'm more interested in long term..

That is what I have done.
After the tests I checked re soiling after a month, two, three etc.
That is why it is a much better method, as I did not have to rely on memory. I could see in front of my eyes which cleaning method and or chemicals attracted less soiling, (resoiling rate as you call it) and which stayed clean longer. The cleaning results were both right there in front of me, in my home and for months.

How do you know with your experiment that the Dynachem was the culprit and not what you used before? An operator error? A cumulative effect? Maybe there was a change in the normal soiling in your parents home. What about wear?

Certainly not enough to pass such conclusive judgment.

 

[Larry Cobb]

... I use a mytee M5 portable-- using just hot tap water which was 140 degree out of the faucet, ( i did test it with thermometer)- put it in my solution tank--hooked up my rotovac 360i with carpet brush head and applied to carpet withOUT the vacs turned on, worked it into the carpet of one room, when done with that room i turned on the vacs and just went back and extracted it still using the carpet brush head,
Great agitation using the 360i with carpet brush head and carpet came out great-looked new again.
I think any halfway decent chem used with at least 100 degree or above water (when hitting the carpet) along with good to very good agitation will get the job done most of the time--I think good agitation is a little more important than high heat ...

Kevin;

A cleaning process with 2 agitation passes by the RV360i Brush Head ...
will clean a very dirty carpet.

However, a similar result probably would be obtained by 210° hot water and 1 "brush head" pass.

Larry

 

[sweendogg]

Kolfer: I've tried all of those.. I don't do it to compare but simply the resoil rates over time.. Most of the cleaning agnets used today will not have rapid resoiling if used correctly.. I'm more interested in long term..

That is what I have done.
After the tests I checked re soiling after a month, two, three etc.
That is why it is a much better method, as I did not have to rely on memory. I could see in front of my eyes which cleaning method and or chemicals attracted less soiling, (resoiling rate as you call it) and which stayed clean longer. The cleaning results were both right there in front of me, in my home and for months.

How do you know with your experiment that the Dynachem was the culprit and not what you used before? An operator error? A cumulative effect? Maybe there was a change in the normal soiling in your parents home. What about wear?

Certainly not enough to pass such conclusive judgment.

I'm at my parents home weekly Dad happens to be my boss. And he reports everything to me that I don't see. Basically my testing isn't about the method... Its about the chemistry. I'd say 85% of the houses I clean need a prespray and some sort of rinse, all beit in acid or detergent.. I make the call based on soiling types, fiber types, and what I'm using to prespray with. 10% of the houses we get we clean very often and the light amount of soiling is easily taken care with a detergent rinsing alone.

So.. when I'm cleaning this lone room, I clean it often enough that all it needs is a good rinsing. Ergo I like to try different detergent or in tank rinses out. The order up to the point where I tried the Dynaforce was: (and no its not memory,, I do write it down) I had used in order on that room: Grandslam with an All Fiber Rinse (matrix) probably the first like 10 cleanings. Next I used Formula 77 from Chemspec, the next cleaning was Finish First (matrix.. private lable of formula 90), I then used Prochem Dry Slurry. ( had a bunch of small samples to test), Then I tried the Dynaforce Detergent. Up till that point, there was no noticble soiling. I used the dynaforce and bammm, 3 months later, carpet was grayed out with soil. Cleaned again with Finish First and again back to no problems. I have since tried soap free, and masterblend's one step.

I use this room purely as a test bed mostly for detergent rinses. Just like I get to try out deoderizing products in my home as I have to dogs.. one nicely house broken and the other that pisses at the first thought of being scared. I test most of my presprays at our retail store.

 

[kevinj61]

It should have been: "Hey David, thanks for your knowledgeable feedback.

But I'll pass it along.

Hey David, Sorry man, thanks for YOUR knowledgeable feedback.

So what detergent in your opinion works the best as far as cleaning ability and stays cleaner the longest

also did you ever try SappireScientific's "Fiber Soft" rapid rinse and cleaner which is suppose to neutralize the alkaline
characteristics of detergents to prevent rapid resoiling and is to be used after using their detergent

on your test of the dynoforce detergent did you rinse afterwards or just use the detergent and leave it at that, cause if
so that may be why it resoiled faster then other detergents you tried, i would think that if you used a rinse afterwards
maybe it would not.

 

[sweendogg]

Kevin,, it kinds of sounds like your still struggling with the whole neutral, alkalinity perception of carpet. I know almost all of us were taught from the get go that we need to neutralize the carpet after we have used our alkaline cleaning solution. Well on most soiling situations we can get away with using only a prespray and an acidic rinse agent. After All Acid Rinse will neutralize alakinity, will still lower the surface tension of the water, and will usually give the carpet a softer hand. And when using acid rinse there are some that most would argue are better than others. Alot of us agree that hydroxy acetic acid rinses are going to be your ideal acidic rinse agents as they accomplish all of the benefits of an acid rinse, and can actuelly aid in some cleaning ability allbeit small.

When encountering heavier soil loads, its nice to have a little more cleaning punch at the wand or extraction machine as once the initial extraction pass over an areas has been completed most of the preconditioning agent has been removed stopping any further soil suspension unless you have a detergent rinse in your machine or since we can also use products like soap free, procyon, we can call it an alkaline rinse. Now a well formulated alkaline rinse will leave just as little residue as an acidic rinse. However, in world of chemistry and money, if you can be convinced to use additional chemistry such as a follow up acid rinse, distributers and manufactures will make more money by selling more product. Now this isn't their only motivation.. In the infancy of HWE, there were alot more wool carpets and almost all carpets were tufted on jute backings. Wool carpet just like wool rugs prefers to be left on the acidic side, its natural state. And secondarily wool carpet woven or tufted and of course almost of your other carpets tufted into jute, we now have cellulosic material that if left on the alkaline side or too wet can cause browning to wick to the surface. If cleaners used an acidic rinse, they greatly minimized this.

While some carpets are still made on jute or use a jute woven foundation, probably 90% of the carpets cleaners encounter are going to be tufted on a synthetic backing, and thus cellulosic browning is not so much of an issue. The other big misconception that drove the acid rinse for so long was that since soiling is mostly acidic oils, if you leave the carpet in an alkaline state, it will attract soiling quicker.. Well as Shawn F. likes to point out. Alkalinity does not attract soiling. Residues left behind by cleaning agents are the culprits responcible for rapid resoiling, which brings us the discussion of the Dynaforce or any other detergent. Most powdered detergents are designed so that any left over would dry back to a powder. Thus minimizing any resoil. Some alkaine cleaning solutions such as Masterblend Soap Free, Prochoice's Oxygen Release Emulsifier, Procyon, or other detergent free products can provide the additional cleaning in heavily soiled situations and yet are guarenteed not to leave a residue behind.

As you see you don't always have to follow up with a acid rinse. What this does is make our job a little easier if we can gauge which jobs need the extra punch of an alkaline rinse and which ones do not.

Now in the matter of what may have caused the resoiling, used properly, dynaforcse detergent according to SS should not have left any soil attracting residue. And the other detergents I have tried, did not have the same noticble build up. If I had to guess what caused it, it would have been the dilution ratios. A detergent rinse can be just as effective at a lower dilution ratio. And in fact when I have tried the other products i had 1 or 2 lb samples.. (or full containers). I usually use anwhere from .75 to 1 lb. and have found very little problem, but in the case of the dynaforce, I used it per directions.

 

[ruff]

Kolfer: I've tried all of those.. I don't do it to compare but simply the resoil rates over time.. Most of the cleaning agnets used today will not have rapid resoiling if used correctly.. I'm more interested in long term..

That is what I have done.
After the tests I checked re soiling after a month, two, three etc.
That is why it is a much better method, as I did not have to rely on memory. I could see in front of my eyes which cleaning method and or chemicals attracted less soiling, (resoiling rate as you call it) and which stayed clean longer. The cleaning results were both right there in front of me, in my home and for months.

How do you know with your experiment that the Dynachem was the culprit and not what you used before? An operator error? A cumulative effect? Maybe there was a change in the normal soiling in your parents home. What about wear?

Certainly not enough to pass such conclusive judgment.

Larry Cobb brought to my attention that I made an error:

Hi;
I was just reading the above post.
I think you used our Dynachem Brand name instead of DynaForce.
I'd appreciate it, if you would correct that.

Thanks,
Larry

I apologize Larry, indeed what I meant to write was Dynaforce. Also, if you read the post I was actually defending the product from what I perceived to be an unfair and inaccurate criticism. It is very easy to slam a product and damage its reputation. People should think many times and be absolutely sure about their conclusions before they do it.

 

[sweendogg]

I wasn't trying to unfair or inaccurate.. simply pointing out my experience with it.. I should have prefaced that fact when i first made the first statement... for that I apoligize, I know when I discovered the issue I also checked with the customers whose carpet I used the product on as well.. One carpet was fine, the other had a similar issue. But not as bad.

Saphire Scientific along with all of the legends brands has some great products, both equipment and chemistry.

 

[kevinj61]

Hey David maybe we should call and chat on the phone, LOL anyway this is Sapphirescientific's directions that i downloaded and have copied and pasted here see below

DynaForce is moderately alkaline. The ready-to-use mixture has a pH of less than 10 so it is suitable for use on stain resist carpeting.

The basic 2-step process is:
1. Pretreat with Surge Heavy Duty Traffic Lane Cleaner
2. Extract using DynaForce

Then the other procedure is this:
PROCEDURE
Read these steps before using the product.
? Post wet floor signs if necessary.
? Pilate the carpet. This lifts the pile and prepares it for efficient soil removal.
? Vacuum the carpet to remove as much dry soil as possible. This step will make the overall extraction process far more efficient.
? Prespray carpet with Surge Traffic Lane Cleaner according to label directions. Allow a 10 to 15 minute dwell time but do not allow the solution to dry on the carpet.

? Begin the extraction process using DynaForce. Be sure that the water supply is hot and be sure to use alternate wet and dry
strokes in order to remove as much water as possible. If foam starts to form in the waste water stream, put foam suppressant into
the vacuum line. Do NOT add foam suppressant to any detergent or rinse solution.

? After extraction is completed, apply Fiber Soft Rapid Rinse and Cleaner according to label directions. Work into the carpet and
then use dry passes with the extractor to remove moisture.
? Inspect the work area for possible overspray, soil wicking, or odor
? It is at this stage of the process that soil retardant could be applied to the carpet.
? Establish good drying conditions. Depending on the size and layout of the building, it is useful to install air movers to begin the
drying process as each room is completed. In some cases, this will allow you to show the customer a completely dry and clean
section of carpet before departing.
? Final inspection: Be sure that no supplies or equipment are left in the work area, that the customer’s items are returned to the
correct location, and that any water sensitive items such as table legs, furniture skirts or windows treatments are protected from
contact with the wet carpet.

So I guess i could just use the basic two step process 1.pre spray/agitate 2.then rinse with the detergent

guess you also could pre spary then rinse with their Fiber soft rapid rinse and cleaner instead of the detergent

Or their other "procedure Pre spray detergent then fiber soft rinse maybe the three step is a little too much huh

what are your thoughts on this the two step or the three step

 

[kevinj61]

Guess i sometimes don't have that much trust or confidence in all these different pre sprays, thats why i keep
trying different ones and then there are also so many different rinse/emulsifiers which i don't believe any of those
have much cleaning power at all, thats why i was expermenting with the detergents, they will have alot more cleaning
power then the rinse/emulsifier products i have two supply companies i use "interlink" and "adco" they should all get
there stories striaght i mean i can go to both places and ask the same question and get different answers and even more
different answers depending on who you ask--not sure if any of these guys have ever cleaned a carpet let alone even used any of
the products they sell

 

[sweendogg]

Of your two suppliers listed, I'd trust Adco over Interlink... but I'm biased toward them with my rug trainig. We order from them quite often for almmost all of our Masterblend chemical lines.

Here is the short quick answer about preconditioners over detergents over acidic rinses. A well formulated preconditioner is going to make your job a hell of a lot easier. They are concentrated and formulated to attack the wide variety of soiling in carpet. Add some dwell time and agitation and bamn, our job becomes an easy rinsing, with perhaps a little specialty spotting.

The system I adhere to is as following: If its Heavily soiled, I'll precondition, agitate with 175, or Host machine, and Rinse with an alkaline rinse.. usually one of the well formulated detergents. If its normal soiling, I'll precondition, agitate with machine or brush, and extract with an acidic rinse or a soap free product to add a little more punch. If its light soiling, I'll simply go through an extraction step with either a well formulated detergent rinse or a soap free product. This system works for me. I admit I've cheated as I have friends in the industry who have been cleaning for 30 plus years, and has lent us some hints of products they use and never had a problem with. Like Formula 77 from Chemspec. They use it in their entire fleet of trucks to clean most houses with.

But keep reading here, and check out the goldmine. There is some amazing information if you look for it and ask the right questions.