Encap Punch
- Thread starter Brian L
- Start date
vincent
Member
Friend of mine uses it, but only in a pinch. Does ok.
I don't really get encap presprays, actually I barely get encap rinses for HWE, but I can buy the "at least what residue is left is brittle drying", but how does that play into the encap prespraying, cause I am trying to rinse 100% of the prespray with 98.5% of the rinse.
Or is this just another Luddy what are you trying to do this week excersize?
Or is this just another Luddy what are you trying to do this week excersize?
BRUCE LITTLE
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 34
I use it everyday & it works great !!!
BRUCE LITTLE
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 34
We spray it down, then use a GLS to prescrub, then clean with wand. THat is what punch was design for is HWE. Like a say it works great for us.
TimP
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,055
I ordered some Grime Reaper and Shatter from Vac-a-way. Grime Reaper looks like Hot-Knife...yellowish color.... just darker and more concentrated looking. Shatter is a grey color. I haven't tried it out yet. I love the idea that you wont have residue but I think the stuff works mostly cause of the freaking ammonia in the product.
I seE no need for polymer laced presprays my self. I think it is just dumb. Unless you are the maufacturer then it is good marketing. Think about it. You can only put so much stuff in a gal jug. The more NON cleaning stuff you have the less CLEANING stuff you have. :shock:
sweendogg
Member
Ok Greenie, lets try this, lets forget the fact that its based around encapsulation technology.. If you had a product that when concentrated cleaned very well as a prespray, Then you could dilute it and rinse with it to clean. Then effectively you would only have to purchase one product rather than two or even three different products. Now throw that encapsulation/polymer part back into and you have a Prespray rinse combo that cleans well and now won't leave a soil attracting residue, Guarenteed. So our benefets are: No soil attracting residue, One product to keep on hand for both a prespray and rinse, and if you are using it for commercial maintenane accounts, a product that is compatable with your low moisture system, and from what I've researched cleans halfway decent. The theory behind it is great..
Let me ask this, if Judson Labs was able to produce an O2 product that was both the prespray and rinse and didn't leave any residue, and still cleaned as well; would it be a good beneficial product?
Let me ask this, if Judson Labs was able to produce an O2 product that was both the prespray and rinse and didn't leave any residue, and still cleaned as well; would it be a good beneficial product?
Sweendog,
I hear ya, I got the basic idea, it's marketed for awhile, I just have one issue that throws a wrench into it.
You are assuming the emulsifiers used leave a soil attracting residue. You don't need hard floor polymer to make a rinse emulsifier that doesn't promote resoil?
Now, the universalness of the product is a genuine advantage. BUt I would have to look at cost per RTU to make that decision, sometimes it's better to carry a dedicated shampoo and HWE chems.
I hear ya, I got the basic idea, it's marketed for awhile, I just have one issue that throws a wrench into it.
You are assuming the emulsifiers used leave a soil attracting residue. You don't need hard floor polymer to make a rinse emulsifier that doesn't promote resoil?
Now, the universalness of the product is a genuine advantage. BUt I would have to look at cost per RTU to make that decision, sometimes it's better to carry a dedicated shampoo and HWE chems.
TimP
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,055
The price of RTU for Vac-a-way products is sound. 2 oz per gallon on ps for residential for grime reaper. And it's 8-16 oz per 5 gal stock solution for the rinse using shatter. Each are in the ball park of 30-35 bucks a gallon (free shipping is easy to achieve)....cheaper than most product RTU for sure. And both are encap HWE products.
But like I said before I believe they rely on Ammonia in heavily to clean. I'm sure there are surfactants or something that makes it all work but what I'm trying to say is you can tell there is ammonia in and a lot of it.
I do like using Hot Knife on some upholstery where I know I can't get my upholstery tool everywhere like in a car for instance....
Oh and I do see the polymer possibly having an advantage where in traffic areas it could fill in scratches temporarily till they vacuum adequately.....
But what I'm saying doesn't mean I'm completely sold on the process. I am planning on trying it out and seeing what I think....
But like I said before I believe they rely on Ammonia in heavily to clean. I'm sure there are surfactants or something that makes it all work but what I'm trying to say is you can tell there is ammonia in and a lot of it.
I do like using Hot Knife on some upholstery where I know I can't get my upholstery tool everywhere like in a car for instance....
Oh and I do see the polymer possibly having an advantage where in traffic areas it could fill in scratches temporarily till they vacuum adequately.....
But what I'm saying doesn't mean I'm completely sold on the process. I am planning on trying it out and seeing what I think....
sweendogg
Member
Greenie you are absolutly correct and for the majority of us that understand what we are using its a non issure. We have the right chemicals for the right situation. Its just nice to have something like that on the market for the situations when price, incompetant technicians, and staying within a product line for the chemical compatiblity are an issue.
This is why I love being the cleaner and not a distributer. Like a Kid in the Candy shop, we get to try everything and do not have to settle on a single type. We pick and choose what we like and what works and in the end gets the green!
BTW.. I found the dilution ratio
DILUTION RATES:
TRAFFIC LANE PRE-SPRAY:
Per Gallon Dilutions
Light Soil = 8 oz 1:16
Medium Soil = 10 oz 1:12
Heavy Soil = 12 oz 1:10
RINSE DETERGENT:
Dilution Truckmount: 1 quart per 5 gallons of stock solution.
Dilution Portable: 2-4 ounces per 5 gallons.
BONNET/PAD DETERGENT:
Dilution 8 oz per gallon.
This is why I love being the cleaner and not a distributer. Like a Kid in the Candy shop, we get to try everything and do not have to settle on a single type. We pick and choose what we like and what works and in the end gets the green!
BTW.. I found the dilution ratio
DILUTION RATES:
TRAFFIC LANE PRE-SPRAY:
Per Gallon Dilutions
Light Soil = 8 oz 1:16
Medium Soil = 10 oz 1:12
Heavy Soil = 12 oz 1:10
RINSE DETERGENT:
Dilution Truckmount: 1 quart per 5 gallons of stock solution.
Dilution Portable: 2-4 ounces per 5 gallons.
BONNET/PAD DETERGENT:
Dilution 8 oz per gallon.
encapman
Member
Rex said...
"I seE no need for polymer laced presprays my self. I think it is just dumb. Unless you are the maufacturer then it is good marketing. Think about it. You can only put so much stuff in a gal jug. The more NON cleaning stuff you have the less CLEANING stuff you have."
Rex your argument would hold weight, all except for one thing... You've wrongly concluded that the polymer doesn't contribute to the cleaning. In fact the polymer plays a key role in the cleaning. In addition to the detergent package in Encap-Punch, the polymer ABSORBS oils and soil.
Greenie said...
"I just have one issue that throws a wrench into it. You are assuming the emulsifiers used leave a soil attracting residue. You don't need hard floor polymer to make a rinse emulsifier that doesn't promote resoil?"
Greenie your argument would hold weight... if in fact we were using a hard floor polymer. But the truth is, we're using a polymer that is very different from a hard floor polymer. If you used our polymer to wax a floor, you'd have a big mess on your hands! Conversely, if we used a hard floor polymer in Releasit you'd have to use floor stripper to get it out of the carpet. The polymer we're using is totally different technology than floor care.
Jimmy said...
Well who cares what Jimmy said? :wink:
.
"I seE no need for polymer laced presprays my self. I think it is just dumb. Unless you are the maufacturer then it is good marketing. Think about it. You can only put so much stuff in a gal jug. The more NON cleaning stuff you have the less CLEANING stuff you have."
Rex your argument would hold weight, all except for one thing... You've wrongly concluded that the polymer doesn't contribute to the cleaning. In fact the polymer plays a key role in the cleaning. In addition to the detergent package in Encap-Punch, the polymer ABSORBS oils and soil.
Greenie said...
"I just have one issue that throws a wrench into it. You are assuming the emulsifiers used leave a soil attracting residue. You don't need hard floor polymer to make a rinse emulsifier that doesn't promote resoil?"
Greenie your argument would hold weight... if in fact we were using a hard floor polymer. But the truth is, we're using a polymer that is very different from a hard floor polymer. If you used our polymer to wax a floor, you'd have a big mess on your hands! Conversely, if we used a hard floor polymer in Releasit you'd have to use floor stripper to get it out of the carpet. The polymer we're using is totally different technology than floor care.
Jimmy said...
Well who cares what Jimmy said? :wink:
.
encapman said:
I stand corrected. I forgot or distributor. :shock:
Encapman, my opinion is that of prespray for HWE. I will not get sucked into a debate of whether encap is or isn't. I respect your opinion but from a HWE prespray point of view I disagree.
encapman
Member
Rex look at it another way. With an encapsulating HWE cleaning system, you're now employing two cleaning methods. The primary method of cleaning is extraction, and a secondary function is encapsulation. And keep in mind that with HWE, we can never extract absolutely everything from the carpet, so any polymeric residue that we're leaving behind during the cleaning will help to resist resoiling.
It's Also A Good Marketing Point For Your Customers:
The next time a homeowner objects that she always heard she should wait as long as possible before cleaning her carpet and that's why she hasn't cleaned it in 5 years... you can address her objection. "Yes mam, detergent residue CAN attract soil. And although our fire-breathing machine does a terrific job, we are taking it a step further. Our company uses a special cleaning agent that dries brittle, not sticky, so it simply can't attract soil (in fact it resists soil). If you have a saucer handy, I can pour a few drops of the concentrate into a dish. And after it dries you can see for yourself that it's not sticky at all."
.
It's Also A Good Marketing Point For Your Customers:
The next time a homeowner objects that she always heard she should wait as long as possible before cleaning her carpet and that's why she hasn't cleaned it in 5 years... you can address her objection. "Yes mam, detergent residue CAN attract soil. And although our fire-breathing machine does a terrific job, we are taking it a step further. Our company uses a special cleaning agent that dries brittle, not sticky, so it simply can't attract soil (in fact it resists soil). If you have a saucer handy, I can pour a few drops of the concentrate into a dish. And after it dries you can see for yourself that it's not sticky at all."
.
sweendogg
Member
Why do I get the feeling that Rex is slowly pushing for a free sample to convince him otherwise... hmm not a bad idea... Hey Rick how about offering either a single gallon for sale or a promo gallon for Mikey Boarders. I love the release it for when encapsualtion/shampoo is needed, but because our customer base and it seems like alot of the boarders here are centered around HWE, it would be beneficiel for us to try a single gallon of encap punch vs say the free gallon of release you offer to new customers... Because I can only get it in a case and have not needed any other releaseit products yet.. I haven't had the opportunity to try this product. I know it would be great for our continuous floor care programs but again just didn't want to invest in a case without trying a gallon first. And I'm sure I'm not alone... Just a thought 
sweendogg said:Why do I get the feeling that Rex is slowly pushing for a free sample to convince him otherwise...
Because you don't know me. Save the shipping charges. I actually think the polymers impede the rinse process. Thanks but no thanks. But then again I am just an ignorant redneck.
Rick, you know me better than that, I was making a "general" statement cause it's been said so many times that these "polymers" come from other industries.
I had my say, I'm moving onto other threads, you guys have fun with it, Sweendog answered my suspicions with dilution ratios.
I had my say, I'm moving onto other threads, you guys have fun with it, Sweendog answered my suspicions with dilution ratios.
sweendogg
Member
Sheesh, I take a little literary lisence to try to convince Rick to give some of his product away and I get the the you don't know me responce... O brother you must be a man of constant sorrow :roll: Hmm sounds like a song.. Maybe a movie! 
Can't get no respect!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FPv2toi5og
Can't get no respect!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FPv2toi5og
sweendogg
Member
Dang... its Friday night and nobody has a sense of humor!
It wasn't a matter of if I know you or not.. I was just asking Rick in a round about way if he would offer some sort of trial or sample of the product.. just happened to come after your thread. No disrespect intended.
It wasn't a matter of if I know you or not.. I was just asking Rick in a round about way if he would offer some sort of trial or sample of the product.. just happened to come after your thread. No disrespect intended.
Since the introduction of teflon on cookware they found a build up of it in the human body.
We all have it in our system.
Is that a good thing?
Now we look at the polymer based SHAMPOOS.
We scrub it in the carpets then make an attempt to TRY and vacuum it all out.
The makers of said products all want you to think its little crystals that are attaching to soil particles.But in reality its a very fine DUST.
Most if not all of it will ever get vacuumed out by Mrs. Piffleton or the janitors in a commercial building.
So picture a baby crawling on that carpet.
Sticking it's hand s into it's mouth...breathing in particles of polymer dust.
And in a commerical building where mr. Janitor pushes his poorly mantained dust spewing vacuum around.
Think of the buildings HVAC system circulating all that polymer dust thru the whole building over time. It will be in everyone's lungs and into their blood stream.
The chem makers even say to people that you can use this stuff everyday!
No harm done!
Someday like the failed bank CEOs the chem makers will be brought before congress to explain
why on earth they want to inflict damage on people's health.
It couldn't be GREED could it?
Isn't that special?
SATAN!
We all have it in our system.
Is that a good thing?
Now we look at the polymer based SHAMPOOS.
We scrub it in the carpets then make an attempt to TRY and vacuum it all out.
The makers of said products all want you to think its little crystals that are attaching to soil particles.But in reality its a very fine DUST.
Most if not all of it will ever get vacuumed out by Mrs. Piffleton or the janitors in a commercial building.
So picture a baby crawling on that carpet.
Sticking it's hand s into it's mouth...breathing in particles of polymer dust.
And in a commerical building where mr. Janitor pushes his poorly mantained dust spewing vacuum around.
Think of the buildings HVAC system circulating all that polymer dust thru the whole building over time. It will be in everyone's lungs and into their blood stream.
The chem makers even say to people that you can use this stuff everyday!
No harm done!
Someday like the failed bank CEOs the chem makers will be brought before congress to explain
why on earth they want to inflict damage on people's health.
It couldn't be GREED could it?
Isn't that special?
SATAN!
tim
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 544
I use punch as a prespray on commercial gluedown when I am afraid of wickback. I put it down, cimex it in, hwe. It isnt as strong as other presprays I use but when it is time to extract instead of encap on a gluedown with heavy drink spills, punch will make you a hero. Actually just had a client tell me the carpets never looked better. As far as the argument, does the polymer binder ever get picked back up in vacuuming, several clients tell me they know when I encap as their vacuum bag is full after 1 vacuuming. Try it yourself, if you dont like it, move on to something else. I have come to find that you could have 1000 different products, 1000 different cleaners and every one would choose a different product. Another thread suggested the possibility, jokingly of "regional cleaning" effectiveness. It is interesting to me as well, how some products are the best thing since sliced bread and others say they dont work for them. I think they either work well or dont work well when properly used and diluted. But the reason there are so many manufacturers of chemicals with identical products to others is we use one product, develop a bias for it or against it, then slam every other product whether we have really tried them in a fair side by side comparison or not. I have tried almost every product out there and most of them in side by side comparisons. I have drawn my own conclusions and laugh quietly when others tout their prespray as the "best" and other effective cleaners as "crap". Not many magic bullets out there. Try them, decide for yourself, buy in bulk, make lots of $$. I imagine most of our cleaners are light years ahead of what was used just 10 - 15 years ago.
sweendogg
Member
Awww its ok ReX
