For approval, the check must clear.

[Shawn Forsythe]

Big news! CRI has added a new SOA category. Pet Stain and Odor removal. Yay, what we've been waiting for. Now you don't have to waste all that time sorting through products that don't work.

Yeah, right.

The following is the pertinent detailed test criteria that CRI has placed on their new Pet Stain and Odor category from the CRI Seal of Approval (SOA). This is in addition to the already established standards for other cleaning products, such as pH, resoiling, etc.

1. Removal Efficacy

The evaluation of the effectiveness of spot and stain removal products is achieved by means of rating removal of specific staining agents when cleaned with the cleaning product. A parallel comparison using plain water for removal is used.

* The stain removal efficacy must be equal to or better than water only cleaning.
* The odor removal efficacy must be rated a minimum of 3 points higher than water only cleaning.


Let's see.... It only has to remove the stain with efficacy equal to water?????? :shock:
Boy, they set the bar high on that one, eh?

The odor removal has to be "3 points" better than water? WTF is the scale of these points? Brownie points? CRI Points? Rug Doctor points?

This is supposed to be the "detailed information on testing criteria", as per their description.



Can anyone doubt that this process has much less to do about improving the state of the industry, and is little more than selling an advertising mark? These guys are digging the credibility hole even deeper every day.

 

[timnelson]

The thinly-disguised money grab is now naked.

 

[Kabluey]

Good job Shawn bringing this to our attention.


Is there anything we can do to prevent this take over of our industry at our expense?

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I see disdain for the program is rather rampant, even existing with the actual people and companies who participate for strictly financial reasons. Manufacturers of chemicals and equipment are almost forced to participate so that they can have products to sell which are compliant with the residential carpet warranties of the big three (Shaw, Beaulieu, & Mohawk).

But because it is little more than quiet disdain, not much is in their way.

Sure, you could have a lawsuit to challenge the residential carpet warranty provisions that require carpet owners to only utilize cleaners who adhere to the use of CRI approved products. But I can't envision a scenario that would bring about such a lawsuit, outside of a class action. If ever there is a residential carpet owner who sustains a loss great enough to justify such a suit, the CRI is likely to still bury them, or worst case, settle to avoid any precedent setting measures from a court decision. While it might be a slam-dunk lawsuit, it would still take a lot of money to carry it out (The arbitrary standards of the CRI program is the legal basis).

The only logical alternative in this situation is something like Lisa Wagner has mentioned. If the industry standards body, the IICRC, distances themselves from the CRI to the point of shunning. But I wonder what the chances are of that. The same residential carpet warranty that calls for CRI approved chemicals and equipment also mandates that professional cleaners be IICRC Certified Firms. Would then the IICRC even consider severing a relationship which has so much potential monetary benefit? Well, that depends on the Board of Directors, I suppose.

 

[Kabluey]

How many complaints, issues or damage does the mills hear a year and do they lay the blame on us for some of the complaints? I read some years ago that its the installers that drop the ball and cause most warranty issues.

Has the mills came out and said why they want stricter regulations besides the obvious money to be made?

Also Stanley Steemer is one of the largest companies in the world and would they force a large company like that to follow the rules. I have noticed Steemer has put some distance from the industry in general over the last 10 years. They make their own TM and use their own chemicals. On a side note Steemer now pre-vacs. :shock:

thanks shawn

 

[Mark Imbesi]

...

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

You are right, Marc.

But how do you feel about paying for the certification seal on a product that has absolutely no intrinsic value to the cleaner?

You might say that you'll avoid those products. But what if it not only removes stains the same as water, but actually is a tried and true favorite product you've been using all along but now has a hidden expense.

My point is that the actual mark has no intrinsic value other than it cost the manufacturer plenty, for which he simply pases on the cost to the user.

 

[KevinL]

I've never seen one product work on all or even most pet stains. It's more the make of the carpet that either lets go of the stain or not. 9 times out of 10, the color has been stripped and nothing helps that. The cri is worthless to everyone except protecting the manufacturers from backing their warranties.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

Big news! CRI has added a new SOA category. Pet Stain and Odor removal. Yay, what we've been waiting for. Now you don't have to waste all that time sorting through products that don't work.

Yeah, right.

The following is the pertinent detailed test criteria that CRI has placed on their new Pet Stain and Odor category from the CRI Seal of Approval (SOA). This is in addition to the already established standards for other cleaning products, such as pH, resoiling, etc.

1. Removal Efficacy

The evaluation of the effectiveness of spot and stain removal products is achieved by means of rating removal of specific staining agents when cleaned with the cleaning product. A parallel comparison using plain water for removal is used.

* The stain removal efficacy must be equal to or better than water only cleaning.
* The odor removal efficacy must be rated a minimum of 3 points higher than water only cleaning.


Let's see.... It only has to remove the stain with efficacy equal to water?????? :shock:
Boy, they set the bar high on that one, eh?

The odor removal has to be "3 points" better than water? WTF is the scale of these points? Brownie points? CRI Points? Rug Doctor points?

This is supposed to be the "detailed information on testing criteria", as per their description.



Can anyone doubt that this process has much less to do about improving the state of the industry, and is little more than selling an advertising mark? These guys are digging the credibility hole even deeper every day.

Shawn - this is so funny... but also maddening. Thanks for laying it out like this. Can I quote you on the CRI blog - let me know. (I will remove the WTF reference.) (Hey- WTF?)

:-)
Lisa

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Its enjoyable to watch one's opponent do something even more self destructive than their last.

We'll have some fun with this one.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

Re: For approval, the check must clear. CRI

I think we should pass out PLATINUM-SOA-PET-PEE-APPROVED clothespins for noses at Connections.

Something stinks in CRI-ville...

Lisa

 

[Dan Joner]

Good suggestion, Lisa. Why not make up a bunch of those clothes pins that folk could clip to their shirt. This may be a way to generate some visible interest at Connections.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Shawn

Have you seen any testing protocol?

Let's be clear, I'm being serious with these questions:

1. They have long insisted that the need for a consistent way of measuring soil was crucial, and feel that "real soil" cannot deliver a consistent and measurable test result.

2. If this is the case, how do you create a consistent type of urine contamination? (I'm still serious)

a. Do you homogenize dog, cat, human, and perhaps ferret urine? Or do you just take the "top two" and do dog and cat?
b. Do you then account for the size, gender, and condition of the pet's health?
c. How do you account for "fresh" versus "aged" contamination?

3. Will the products be tested on installed carpet with injection or subsurface extraction? Or will it be assumed that the treatment will be applied to carpet that has been removed for easy access to both sides of the carpet?

Those three points come to mind immediately. Perhaps they can create synthetic urine to go with their fake dirt.