Gardner Denver T408 Blower Oil Seals Leaking!

[Leslie Judson Jones]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Les did you get the update from Gardner Denver about adding breather ports to the blower? Not sure how many you have put in the field but they had bad run of blowers that the front seals leak. The Breather port was supposed to help.

John,

Thank you so much for your comments about the Gardner Denver blowers. I feel that this is a very important issue that needs to be brought up for anyone owning a truckmount with a T408 blower. I sure would hate to see any carpet cleaner have premature blower failures, because these blowers are extremely expensive compared to a standard blower.

Judson has been involved with Gardner Denver since 1965 when we had a custom-built number 8 blower made for us at that time. Through the years Judson has helped Gardner Denver with issues not only in carpet cleaning applications but also in industrial vacuum systems. In all cases where I have assisted Gardner Denver with issues, the problem has always been application. Eventually we always find out that there is something that is causing an issue with a blower. As long as a blower is being operated within the performance limitations and it is properly maintained on a regular interval, there are no issues.

Judson is probably more experienced with blowers in the carpet cleaning industry than any other manufacturer due to the fact that we use positive displacement blowers for industrial vacuum systems. These industrial vacuum systems that we manufacture run 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. They are electric motor driven with 20 HP, 575 volt motors. We have hundreds of blowers that are still in operation that were put in service in 1980 and actually have that many hours on them.

Another thing people should take a look at is HOW Judson gets such longevity out of our systems? There is a reason. When Judson designs a carpet cleaner or an industrial vacuum we always run below the maximum limitations of a blower. In other words, if a blower is capable of running 16” of mercury, we operate it at 15” of mercury. One of the most important things when it comes to adding life to a blower is having the LEAST amount of RESISTANCE on it possible. What this does is allow the blower to produce the true CFM that the specs say it will produce by maintaining the CFM without resistance. When Judson gives a performance number of airflow for our systems, carpet cleaning or industrial, we are giving the number at the point where the vacuum hose is being connected to the machine. The most important thing about running a low-resistance system is that the blower maintains a lower operating temperature. This is what really adds life to the unit. All Judson truckmounts even from day one have been MINIMUM RESISTANCE systems. Even the new C4 has virtually zero resistance on the blower due to our new custom-made silencing system.

John, since you posted the issues that you have been having with the T408’s on the thread that was asking about my new C4 truckmount that uses the same blower, I decided to investigate these problems that you are having. After discussing this issue with Gardner Denver, there is no update from them concerning this blower. The update is from the manufacturer of the truckmount due to application. There is also no run of defective T408 blowers from Gardner Denver. If there is an issue it probably is an application problem. These blowers do not require additional vent caps on top of them because they have internal vent systems in the gearboxes. Judson is not required to use any additional venting due to our application and lower operating temperatures. If anyone who owns a T408 has any concerns about this issue, feel free to call me and I will be glad to go over a procedure to check that the blower is running within its limits. If you are running a system that is close to its limitations on performance, sometimes a more frequent maintenance schedule is required.

John, is there a specific unit that you are having this problem with? I will be happy to try and resolve the problem you are having since I am a technical advisor for Gardner Denver.

 

[Greenie]

So....is it just the prochems that are having this issue, or others as well, I know Blueline uses them and have blower HX too, any other brands?

I guess the first thing I would want to check is blower output temp, in fact that is probably a good place to put a sensor on HX machines to monitor the health of the unit.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

So....is it just the prochems that are having this issue, or others as well, I know Blueline uses them and have blower HX too, any other brands?

I guess the first thing I would want to check is blower output temp, in fact that is probably a good place to put a sensor on HX machines to monitor the health of the unit.

You know Jeff that is a great idea. It wouldn’t hurt to have a full-time gauge monitoring blower exhaust temperature. Even an inexpensive automotive temperature gauge would probably work. I believe a transmission temperature gauge operates at a higher range.

 

[John Olson]

I am man enough to admit when I was wrong. I thought the C-4 had the 650 on it. MY BAD. The T408 hasn't had an issue. It is the 650 that had a run of bad blowers. Garnder Denver DID send out the directive to put breather caps on the 650. They had a bad run of blowers where the front seal would leak. They re-tooled as they believe the tooling was bad. The run of blowers effected lasted about 6 months.

So again I was wrong in not asking which blower you where using before asking you something you wouldn't have had a clue about because you don't use the big blower.

 

[Nate The Great]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I am man enough to admit when I was wrong. I thought the C-4 had the 650 on it. MY BAD. The T408 hasn't had an issue. It is the 650 that had a run of bad blowers. Garnder Denver DID send out the directive to put breather caps on the 650. They had a bad run of blowers where the front seal would leak. They re-tooled as they believe the tooling was bad. The run of blowers effected lasted about 6 months.

So again I was wrong in not asking which blower you where using before asking you something you wouldn't have had a clue about because you don't use the big blower.

Group hug, just don't pinch my ass this time Greenie.... Ivebeensold

 

[Loren Egland]

Didn't bad blowers from Sutorbuilt become part of Steam Way's demise?

 

[DavidVB]

I don't know how much it contributed to their demise, but when I bought my last 2 a few years ago, they told me that they had gotten blowers in with solid rather than hollow impellers. The weight caused excessive vibration and coupler failure.

 

[Loren Egland]

I think Ralph made good on the blowers for his customers, but even after a lawsuit against the blower manufacturer, by the time the lawyers got theirs, there was still such a loss that it led to Steam Way's sale. I could be wrong, but that is what I remember.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

The unique harmonics of two lobe blowers are amplified by solid lobes, and even more so by direct coupling to two cylinder motors.

The blower manufacturers KNOW this, and have dealt with it in other industries who buy way more units than the carpet cleaning industry.

I'm surprised that the people who "engineer" our equipment don't look over the fence at other similar industrial applications to avoid problems like this.

 

[Bob Foster]

:idea: :arrow: :?: http://www.magnadrive.com/md_couplings/

http://www.pumpingsol.com/MagneticCouplings.htm

 

[GeneMiller]

I spoke to several coupler manufactures years ago that had similar claims but none said they would work with the constant pulsing from the on off action plus a gasoline engine.


gene

 

[hogjowl]

Aren't the blower mfgs available for consult to any TM builder using their products? It would seem reasonable to me.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Yep.

some listen

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

One of the things I have been seeing in the truckmount industry is that a lot of manufacturers are trying to have all proprietary parts on their truckmounts. The main reason truckmount manufacturers do this is that they rely heavily on service and repair revenue after the sale.

Judson sees absolutely no reason to have a custom made blower to be put on a carpet cleaner. The reason why is that if there is a problem with a custom made blower, then there could be a big delay in obtaining a replacement blower of about 6 – 8 weeks. Judson always stays with a standard production blower, so replacement if needed availability is no big deal.

 

[SamIam]

Is this still a problem or is it fixed?

My guy said fixing a seal on one of these is about $800

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Mostly labor.