General Emperor pump locked up

[Lee Stockwell]

The sound of squalling belts grabbed my attention as we rushed to shut down my 405. On closer inspection the pump belt wasn't turning. Fortunately we were at a point where we could wrap up and call it a day.

After supper I plan to go look at it.

What do you think? It's protected with screen on the inlet, the oil was changed a week ago, and although it's a "run dry" pump, I've never run it dry yet.

Maybe I should rag on Larry Cobb, since I bought it from him last year? (j/k Larry)

Thanks,
Lee

 

[Vincent Feehan]

405 have Cat 5Cp2120 pumps on them, why did you change???

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Ability to handle hotter water, and run dry without grief. Supposed to be a better pump.

 

[steve g]

noticed alot of the new machines at one of my suppliers have general pumps now, even prochems. honestly cat pumps have been great for me I have no idea why they would change unless the general pumps are CHEAPER. cat pumps can run dry too, I have ran mine dry and ran water through my 3cp that was way hotter than 180 degrees, I bypassed the water box valve and have actually seen the water in there boiling. 2500 hours and my 3cp is going strong. the pumps I have seen problems with are hypro, those fail catastrophically with connecting rods broke, and daishin sp?? it was the pump that came on one of the old prochem bears.

 

[GeneMiller]

love my cat pump. i melted the cap and the seal retainer and it still ran. leaked a lot of water but still ran. super easy repair. Had nothing but problems with hypro. Sounds like a bearing gave out if it suddenly stopped. can't be good whatever it is.

gene

 

[joe harper]

Hope it is just a frozen bearing in the pulley...?

Good luck..!
My 405 freind... :!:

 

[Vincent Feehan]

Cat pumps are built better, My General pump has already been leaking oil out the shaft seal, 2500 hours. They are cheaper too, thats why Prochem switched I bet cut cost!!

My 405 cat stopped after 6300 hours, so I just bought a new 5CP for it, sold the old one for 200.00 on ebay lol

 

[Larry Cobb]

I was told that ProChem tested them side-by-side . . .

before switching to the General pumps.

General is the largest pump builder in the world,

and preferred by the pressure washing trade.

Lee; that sounds like a rod bearing failure.

Check the crank surface to see if it is serviceable.

Larry

P.S. I have not seen a rod failure in all the Emperor pumps we have in the field.

 

[KevinD]

My guess is going to be bad or swollen seals in the pump head creating
excessive friction.

 

[Art Kelley]

I can't imagine a more trouble free pump than the Cat 5CP. I try not to run it dry but it has, many times, and it has had to pump 200 degree water in my freshy tank when I have recirculated it for hours through my HX. The only thing it doesn't like was when I accidently drained the oil, it fried in 20 minutes on a job when that happened. This replacement pump now has at least 4000 hrs on it and I don't even think about it.

 

[Jimbo]

Lee, I found some really good news on the General Pump warranty...It is Lifetime...











on the Manifold... And 5 years...


















on the 'NON WEAR PARTS!'

see page 2...
http://www.generalpump.com/PDFs/SALES%2 ... Mailer.pdf


Did you find the problem yet...just curious.

 

[The Great Oz]

We've had nothing but grief with Cat 3CPs and 5CPs. Hypros and Comets are just expensive enough to rebuild (and they need frequent rebuilds) that you're better off buying a new pump, but Cats turn into grenades and you won't have a chance to rebuild them.

We switched all of our trucks over to General Emporers 5 years ago, and no longer do any pump repair.

PS: I have five Comets that were working when they came out of HydraMaster CDS' units. Still, assume they all need rebuilds, any offers?

 

[Dale]

Hi GUys:

Back when....

General paid for my 2-3 day rebuild course with all the fixins, motel resteraunts, etc. They do have thes best manifiold. It's forged brass, and even has a no freeze warranty. How many Cat manifolds have you lost to freeze?

Sincerely,
Dale

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Opening it up now. Oil is milky, not a good sign, no metal bits. Opened the crank end, next step remove the head end...

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Head end is fine as are the ceramic plungers and valves. Crank bearing opposite the pulley looks "fine".

Not sure of procedure for pulling off connecting rods and pulling crankshaft. Not like any Cat or Comet I've been inside.




....later: I think I caught it just in time. Filled the crankcase with WD 40 and 5wt and carefully twisted it back and forth till it was turning freely. Drained and filled with spec oil and put the whole pump back together. Will try it tomorrow...carefully.

 

[KevinD]

Head end is fine as are the ceramic plungers and valves. Crank bearing opposite the pulley looks "fine".
Not sure of procedure for pulling off connecting rods and pulling crankshaft. Not like any Cat or Comet I've been inside.
....later: I think I caught it just in time. Filled the crankcase with WD 40 and 5wt and carefully twisted it back and forth till it was turning freely. Drained and filled with spec oil and put the whole pump back together. Will try it tomorrow...carefully.

I'm still going to bet it is the seals and when it gets hot it will do it again.
Till it breaks a rod anyways.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

The machine had been running 7 hours straight. Will watch it like a hawk, and get another pump in the pipeline just in case.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Lee:

The "milky" oil indicates leakage past the plunger oil seals.

The water in the oil does damage the rod bearings.

Depends on how severe the water contamination was.

Larry

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Last night I read the extended specs on the pump where they suggested it could be condensation. They also suggested a maximum percentage of water in the oil that was pretty high.

I noted that they said the pump should be pressure fed at up to 45psi if inlet water was 180 deg F. What feed pump is going to do that? The key reason for going to this pump was its claimed "run dry" tolerance....which they take away with the small print.

How much for crank and rods?

 

[KevinD]

How much for crank and rods?

Probably not worth the price, time and effort of a new pump>

Is it still running?

 

[Larry Cobb]

Last night I read the extended specs on the pump where they suggested it could be condensation. They also suggested a maximum percentage of water in the oil that was pretty high.

I noted that they said the pump should be pressure fed at up to 45psi if inlet water was 180 deg F. What feed pump is going to do that? The key reason for going to this pump was its claimed "run dry" tolerance....which they take away with the small print.

How much for crank and rods?

The pressure feed is most likely to prevent loss of pressure.

Rods would probably fix the bearing problem.

A crank would make the repair too expensive.

Larry

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Over two more trouble-free years on this General pump since this incident.

 

[Willy P]

I've got take some pics of my General and electric motor I bought from the esteemed Mr. Cobb a few years back. I have it mounted on a cart and my metal worker buddy is going to build a housing for it.( I have a project in the works that will shut up Chavez once and for all ). I've had electric Generals before and I have to agree there is no better pump for longevity and consistent performance .

 

[Mike Draper]

My guess is your clutch froze. Check and see if there is a lite dust coating in the surrounding areas like brake dust. This would be from your ball bearings disintegrating.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

No clutch on this one Mike. It was low oil from a leak in the drain line. Usually check in the morning, but this happened at the end of a brutal ten hour run.

I was lucky, freed it up as noted above, but expected it to die soon. Fortunate that it has been flawless since.