Got some fun testing to do soon..

[Mikey P]

My guys have been using Flex ICE rinse but I myself have not had a chance to use it. Jim Pemberton told me he used it solo to clean some uph today with great results.

DevPro Swivel Wand. Tom promises me it will instantly become my favorite wand of all time.

Dwell Pro XL. with super vacs...

Titanium internal PFM uph tool.


My move should be done soon and I can focus to getting my hands and knees dirty once again..

 

[hydracat]

Flex Ice? Is this new? I seem to only use flex anymore. I have my first real upholstery coming up. should I try this and who carries it? Im also ordering a new tool tomorrow. Studabaker told me the SS is almost fool proof. A couple hundred more but is it the one I wont regret?

 

[Mikey P]

Flex Ice is the only powdered acid rinse in thy market, let alone one with good cleaning ability.

Yes the Studebaker Uph Pro is THE best uph over all tool available imo

 

[Steve Lawrence]

Surprised PMF is making its internal jet upholstery tool in titanium. It's already very light.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Surprised PMF is making its internal jet upholstery tool in titanium. It's already very light.

While I prefer the Upholstery Pro for many reasons, I really enjoyed using the Titanium PMF tool at MFE. The design of the tool is great for detail work, and it is noticeably lighter. If I were in the business of cleaning upholstery and a specialist in the field, I would own both tools.

The PMF tool is great for detail work, but it (like all tools designed like that) causes texture distortion on velvet and chenille, which require a lot of grooming afterward. The Upholstery Pro is the best tool I've ever used when it comes to preventing texture distortion and saving time later by keeping texture restoration processes at a minimum.

 

[rwcarpet]

From what I hear, ICE Flex is not on the market....yet. Been waiting to try it.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

From what I hear, ICE Flex is not on the market....yet. Been waiting to try it.

I used it without preconditioning on both carpet and upholstery that belonged to friends and a rental tenant. In these three cases, (which are too few to permit me to come to complete conclusions), it worked very much like an alkaline extraction detergent. I had to revert to using prespray in a few specific areas that had heavy oil build ups, but otherwise it cleaned fairly well by itself.

To be fair, its a product that I will be selling, so I can't claim to be as completely objective as I would be if it was a "blind test".

 

[Big Jim]

I used it without preconditioning on both carpet and upholstery that belonged to friends and a rental tenant. In these three cases, (which are too few to permit me to come to complete conclusions), it worked very much like an alkaline extraction detergent. I had to revert to using prespray in a few specific areas that had heavy oil build ups, but otherwise it cleaned fairly well by itself.

To be fair, its a product that I will be selling, so I can't claim to be as completely objective as I would be if it was a "blind test".

Jim, Is ice designed to be primarily an acid side rinse after using an alkaline pre spray? Obviously you have used it as a stand alone cleaner as well.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Jim, Is ice designed to be primarily an acid side rinse after using an alkaline pre spray? Obviously you have used it as a stand alone cleaner as well.

I'm not completely sure to what extent the product might be sold as a stand alone cleaner. But since its being positioned as having at least some cleaning capability (as opposed to being just an acid neutralizing and rinse agent) I felt I could only adequately test whatever cleaning power it could have by using it without prespray.

 

[Mikey P]

Flex with Bio Silve booster, Flex Ice rinde and a Zipper..

 

[Big Jim]

Flex with Bio Silve booster, Flex Ice rinde and a Zipper..

View attachment 3865

Mike, A question as to how you are applying your (alkaline) pre-spray and using an acid side rinse. I assume you're using a Hydro Force type applicator; if so how are you keeping each product from mixing in the solution line? I believe alkaline pre-spray / acid rinse is the right way to go but wouldn't want them potentially mixing.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Titanium internal PFM uph tool.

I'd like to hear what you think about that tool.

 

[Mikey P]

Mike, A question as to how you are applying your (alkaline) pre-spray and using an acid side rinse. I assume you're using a Hydro Force type applicator; if so how are you keeping each product from mixing in the solution line? I believe alkaline pre-spray / acid rinse is the right way to go but wouldn't want them potentially mixing.

shut off the chemical flow while applying



but in reality the pre spray will over ride the rinse to the point that you'd never notice.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Joe Domin, recently retired from Sapphire, but also for years the "chemistry mind" behind some of Prochem's most popular products, tested this several years ago.

He used Prochem Ultrapac Trafficlean with All Fiber Rinse metered through a truck mount system. He found it dropped the pH of the product from 10 to about 9.5.

Mike's solution is best, but not always practical or easy to teach a technician to do consistently.

 

[J Scott W]

Mike, A question as to how you are applying your (alkaline) pre-spray and using an acid side rinse. I assume you're using a Hydro Force type applicator; if so how are you keeping each product from mixing in the solution line? I believe alkaline pre-spray / acid rinse is the right way to go but wouldn't want them potentially mixing.

Flex Ice or any other acid rinse will be highly diluted, typically about 1:320 if you meter at 3 GPH. Mixing this small amount of acid will not harm your alkaline prespray.

Here are some comments on testing done here at our labs.

In a lab test we mixed Flex Powder at 1 to 32 mixed with Flex Ice at 1 to 320 will drop the pH from 12 to 11.6 - 11.8, not much of a lose of alkalinity. You are boosting Flex Powder with some excellent cleaning power in the form of surfactants and rinse aids. Alkalinity is only one source of cleaning and there is still more than enough at 11.6 to 11.8. Gaining extra surfactancy and rinse aids far outweighs the small amount of loss of alkalinity. In short, Flex Ice will boost your prespray and give you superior rinsing.

We also tested prespraying with Flex powder mixed with Flex Ice and rinsing solely with Flex Ice resulting in a pH of the carpet fibers after cleaning of between 7 and 8. Cleaners may not be aware that interaction with soil loads in carpet "use up" and neutralize alkalinity of the prespray to some degree. The rinse removes these soil loads and any leftover pre-spray.

 

[Big Jim]

Joe Domin, recently retired from Sapphire, but also for years the "chemistry mind" behind some of Prochem's most popular products, tested this several years ago.

He used Prochem Ultrapac Trafficlean with All Fiber Rinse metered through a truck mount system. He found it dropped the pH of the product from 10 to about 9.5.

Mike's solution is best, but not always practical or easy to teach a technician to do consistently.

Thanks for the info Jim. That's kind of what I thought the end result would most likely be; and yes it isn't practical to be running back and forth to shut the chem meter off every time you want to prespray an area. I think (personally) alkaline prespray followed by an side acid rinse just seems to make sense. I do wonder/question the potential long term effect on the TM running predominately acid rinses.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Thanks for the info Jim. That's kind of what I thought the end result would most likely be; and yes it isn't practical to be running back and forth to shut the chem meter off every time you want to prespray an area. I think (personally) alkaline prespray followed by an side acid rinse just seems to make sense. I do wonder/question the potential long term effect on the TM running predominately acid rinses.

That depends on the truck mount and the acid rinse Jim.

Some truck mount manufacturer's recommend against the use of acid rinses, though most acid rinses contain corrosion inhibitors to prevent damage from the acid in the solution.

Its best to get a clear answer on this from the people who made your truck mount, and the people from whom you buy your acid rinse agents.

 

[J Scott W]

Flex Ice does include corrosion inhibitors.

For most truckmounts, this will be like an on-going descaling job. The acid is not corrosive enough to do much damage but it keeps the lines clean. Of course, if you have not descaled for a while and make the change from an alkaline emulsifier to an acid rinse, expect to see some debris in the lines at first.

 

[Hoody]

Flex Ice does include corrosion inhibitors.

For most truckmounts, this will be like an on-going descaling job. The acid is not corrosive enough to do much damage but it keeps the lines clean. Of course, if you have not descaled for a while and make the change from an alkaline emulsifier to an acid rinse, expect to see some debris in the lines at first.

At one point we made the switch from alkaline rinses to acid rinses. We decided to hook all 200 ft of solution lines up with something like a courtesy hose or an open ended male QC. Small chunks of alkaline powder and detergent came out and we didn't have to worry about our jets clogging up from it.

 

[Steve Lawrence]

The acid is not corrosive enough to do much damage

Somehow this isn't too reassuring.

 

[Danny Strickland]

Why not use a container like this to mix your prespray and then the Acid rinse wouldn't matter??? Just mix enough for however many jobs you have scheduled, get a few 75' sections of hose made up (1/4" low pressure) and spray away!!!

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/fimco-15-gallon-spot-sprayer

 

[JS41035]

First time I've prescrubbed with a cimex. Flex. Prescrub RX.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Here are pictures of a microfiber sofa belonging to one of my renters that I cleaned with Flex Ice only.

The stains are primarily pet urine and drink spills, as well as from some unsuccessful spotting attempts by the tenant.

 

[Mikey P]

I really hate Micro Fiber...lol


look for a big Flex Ice release party here..

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I really hate Micro Fiber...lol


look for a big Flex Ice release party here..

I hate it too. It was just one of the better tests scenarios that I had available to me.

I'm also getting good "one step"' cleaning on carpet with Flex Ice, but these are carpets that are cleaned a couple of times a year, are protected every other cleaning, and only looked dull with few if any spots.

 

[rwcarpet]

So.....is there a release date yet for ICE, and any idea on pricing? I'm needing some rinse agent real soon.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I'll be there in SLC and find out Monday Bob.

Call me and and I'll send you a jar of my own today.

 

[J Scott W]

So.....is there a release date yet for ICE, and any idea on pricing? I'm needing some rinse agent real soon.

Flex Ice will be officially announced to distributors on Tuesday. Due to our Beta testing program and Mikey's Board you learned about that product before it was officially announced.

Distributors can begin placing Orders on Wednesday. Company owned stores and distributors who order early will have it in stock about two weeks later.

 

[tubad sosad]

Jim P. about those mf sofas above, what prespray would u have used if doing a two step cleaning? how long would it take you to clean that sofa doing vac, prespray, and rinse? did you agitate the sofa?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Jim P. about those mf sofas above, what prespray would u have used if doing a two step cleaning? how long would it take you to clean that sofa doing vac, prespray, and rinse? did you agitate the sofa?

If I hadn't been trying to push the limits of that product I would have used an alkaline upholstery prespray and agitated it with a 7.75" encap pad curled in half or a soft nylon brush.

I think it would have taken me about 20 minutes to do that piece "right" had it been a grease bomb.