GREENGLIDES - Can't We All Just Glide Along?

truckmount girl

1800greenglides
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
8,880
Location
Sun City, CA
Name
Lisa Smith
Many distributors and users have recently received threatening letters from HRI (Harris Research, Inc. parent company of Chem-Dry) requesting that they refrain from manufacturing, distributing or using infringing GreenGlides products....whatever that means.

First let me address the issues of the judgment and resultant injunction:

As many know, we have fought this battle for two and a half years now. Alone. No other company has stood up to HRI. We spent a large quantity of money on attorney fees until we could no longer afford to continue. After two years they bled us dry financially...easy enough for a big corporation to do to a very small, young company like ours. We then represented ourselves, but lack of time, education and background in case law, protocol and procedure in this very complex specialty of patent law made proceeding nearly impossible. The most I was able to do was ask the court to appoint me an attorney (denied) and ask for extensions. Our case was never presented. We were unable to present the massive amount of prior art and arguments as to why our products did not infringe. Mind you, as we struggled along....things were happening in our industry:

Three prominent companies in our industry have joined the fight in the last several months. All of these companies have been enjoined because of the same patents in contention in our case. In fact, in these newer cases there is an additional patent which did not exist when we first entered the fray. All of these companies are working to have the patents in question invalidated. If the patents are invalidated (and there is an extremely high likelihood they will be, or at least the particular claims that are being applied to glide products) it will mean that ALL will be free to manufacture these products in the future.

We carried this battle for a very long time at a very high cost, and now it is time to allow these larger, better funded companies to complete the mission in the courts. We were advised to refrain from spending more money and/or time in order to fight against patents that are basically doomed anyway by these newer attacks. Why kill a dying man? Their fate is sealed already.

We have asked the court to re-open our case and we have filed protest to their handling of the matter, on the judicial side, and by HRI's attorneys. An appeal has been launched. These products are a medical necessity to many, many cleaners and there removal from the market would constitute a hardship.

NOW, to understand the why's and wherefore's of this case is to see the real reasons behind the actions:

This issue has tremendous scope and weight to our industry. This is not about glides. It's about dry, clean carpets and who is "allowed" to provide them.

The patents in question are vaguely written, dubiously obtained and have been misused in order to control an industry. Because HRI does not sell glides or even a glide-like device, there is no competition in the market. They do not sell equipment outside of their franchisee circle. There is no competition with them.

HRI has, and continues to, refuse to license their patents. Large company or small, no license.

Which may cause many to wonder....why do they care? Here's the answer:

HWE cleaners compete with Chem-Dry for market share in the CLEANING market. Chem-Dry's unique selling point has always been 1-2 hour dry times. As technology and design in extractors has improved so much in the last decade, they have scrambled to hold their USP, yet separate themselves from HWE (which they always bashed). This is illustrated in their moves away from bonnet cleaning through portables and to the TM's they consider their flagship units now. Still trying to somehow maintain their differentiation from HWE with the bubble water concept, which when it gets down to the carpet, is really not different at all.

One aspect they feel they can and must fight is glides. If your average HWE guy can get 1-2 hour dry times with a holed glide, it threatens their USP. BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, eliminating glide technology also takes out the other high performance drying tools and systems like 2.5" hose, Vortexes and other big blower units, high lift/cfm units, because relatively few people have the strength to physically use these performance enhancements or powerful machines without a glide, naturally limiting there viability and scope (read threat) in the cleaning market. By repressing glides, they repress the entire high performance/efficiency "carpets CLEAN and DRY in under 2 hour" growth area of our industry. What's more, with a glide even a small woman or child can use a monster TM. No more worries about stress injuries, burned-out employees and a limited potential employee pool. Workman's comp claims go down, time off for injuries, limited career length because of aging....all virtually eliminated with glides.

Understand this battle has nothing to do with glides. It is still very much our contention that glides don't infringe. It is HRI's desperate attempt to suppress the industry (and retain and grow their marketshare) any way they can.

Why would they dump all the money they have, and will continue to dump into defending a dubious patent; constantly filing newer, even more dubious patents to shore up the original...turning away all offers to license, when they DON'T EVEN SELL THE PRODUCT IN QUESTION?? It's a corporation we're dealing with here...so it's not a matter of principle or emotion...it's a money issue.

Their company stands to lose it's unique value in the marketplace if glide technology continues to spur the growth of larger, more powerful and more efficient extractors....bottomline.

We can do a lot more to eliminate the hold HRI is attempting to place on our ENTIRE industry by working together. I have a general plan....but my time and resources are already stretched thin. I will need some captains to carry out various aspects. I need some people with bright minds, passion for the industry and a little time to devote. Send me a PM and we'll talk.

More to come...

We would like to thank all of you for your past and continued support. I've never met a better group of people.

Take care,
Lisa
 

Jim Martin

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
10,878
Location
Arizona
Name
Jim Martin
so how come this letter is finding its way into every ones hands that use glides but in the last few magazines that have hit the door Clean fax and ICS

Mytee is sporting big adds about there gilded which are the same thing.........

why isent HR trying to stop them....... These glides have popped up in the last month or so that I am aware of.......

more piece's to the puzzle.............
 

JoeClean

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
52
Now that all is being revealed, can we see what these so called patents entail?
Anyone have a copy or link?


Sounds like the whole system needs reworking.
The patent office should have a simple and fair review process for these claims of infringement, instead of letting the richest man win thru lawsuit torture in the court system.
This is really a bigger issue than just the glides I love.
 

truckmount girl

1800greenglides
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
8,880
Location
Sun City, CA
Name
Lisa Smith
here is a piece of prior art that includes all elements in contention on all three patents:

priorart112rt3.jpg


This is just one of MANY.

Take care,
Lisa
 

Glynn

Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
231
just an idea.

Why dont we ALL write a letter for Greenglides in their favour and email it Greenie. I would have thought the legals would see this in greenglides favour ?. It would work out a hundreds if not thousands of letters for them, bit like a campaign.
I'm sure all on our truckmounters board would do it as well.
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
183
I have some thoughts I like to throw out for discussion.

How about we do GLIDEFEST? I and some other instructors feel that you have our glides when you remove them from our cold stuff hands. In other words we could do a mini-convention, bring some speakers; do some IICRC classes, and give the money to the legal defense fund to keep our glides. Other than that, we can go back to weekly chiropractor visits and begging some nurse to come down to the truck to give us a pain killer shot before we get out of the truck.
 
A

anspach

Guest
Lisa and Jeff

Never retreat... never surrender!

Yeah, I know its easy to say and much harder to do - especially when Ken Harris is taunting you in his own little corner of the world and HRI has more money then all the cleaners on this board...


and to HRI my shredder is waiting for any letter you send me!
 
S

Sonny

Guest
Misleading Advertising

RE: The changing Face of glides - MR HARRIS: Sonny Winters: 4/11/2007 12:31:45 PM
I have to agree with Billy Hicks. I find the "Chem Dry" advertising to be a big fat lie to the consumers.

The scene where you show a "regular HWE cleaner" is simple trigger the solution valve and don't hook up the vacuum hose. Yeah it sure would make it that wet.

I've NEVER seen my equipment nor any others for that matter do what Chemdry says we do. I have had the opportunity of working side by side with 20 other companies all on the same job at the exact same time and NO ONE did what Chemdry claims we do.

Then you (Chemdry) shows "their" method and how dry it is. Same thing as before except OOPS I forgot to turn on the solution valve.

People can do alot of things and I don't get mad or upset unless I'm being accused of something that I didn't do. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!! Chemdry commercials are misleading the consumer's.

What happened to "Truth in Advertising"??

I do want to say that in no way am I trying to slam or degrade any individual owner/operator's that are part of the Chemdry franchise. I only have a problem with the "corporate advertising" that is done.

Sonny
 

Greenie

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,820
Unfortunately Independent CD Franchise owners have only the "corporate approved" material to choose from when organizing their advertising, it's not an easy place to work from, for sure most CD guys would choose other material if they could, especially running truckmounted units as the customers aren't stupid they still view it as hot water extraction.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I know four CD owners and 1 has just lost his franchise, 2 others want out. The other one has been an owner for almost 30 years. The 2 both use chemicals and equipment that isn't "Harris" approved. They hate the franchise. I am an exChemDry guy..I now do OP cleaning. I really would like to see them go down. Ever since they lost the patents on CO2, they have been in a world of hurt to try to come up with something new. They are desperate now. They claim that the "Power head" is unique.... :roll: There days are numbered in my book.
Truckmountgirl, Keep up the good fight.

Jon
 

Matt King

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
366
This has probably been addressed before but does this pertain to holed glides only? I assume a slotted or even a complete open slot piece of teflon or plastic isn't an issue. How could it be and why would it be? Since the issue as I understand it is about getting carpets Drier-faster and a certain corporation wanting to market that... I couldn't care less about that as I never had bad dry times to begin with. I use a glide to save my back period. End of story.., If I was that concerned about super fast dry times I'd use fans. I am however concerned about my back and right shoulder though. I was taking 800mg of Ibuprofen in the morning, another 800mg about 2-3pm and sometimes another 800mg if it's a long day. This is the honest to God's truth. Sometimes my lower back would swell up and I'd have to take mega doses of anti-inflammatory drugs and take about 3-4 days off from cleaning just to get back walking straight again. When I snap a piece of teflon on my wand my back doesn't flair up anywhere near as fast as it would without it. When you clean for 10-20 years as many of us have that repetitive motion just destroys that muscle tissue. Think how many strokes you do per job. A few hundred or more perhaps? Multiply that by 5-10 jobs per day times 250-300 days per year times many years of business. Not to mention the furniture moving, the hose carrying etc... Ya gonna take away my furniture sliders too? Not a chance. For me this is a 100% medical issue. If Greenie and the rest can't manufacture glides for one reason or another I'll gladly purchase a blank section of plastic or teflon barstock for my particular wand and cut it or drill it out as I see fit.
 

steve frasier

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
3,375
Location
portland oregon
Name
steve frasier
a lot of it is ironic

hydra master sells them a 450 maxx and installs it with the chem dry name on it

hydra master comes out with a new RX 20 star head and in the later stages of development hydra master wants to put in a small hole in the shoe so the slot can be cleaned out, HRI says no

At this point in time you would think hydra master would tell them to take there new system and GFY

but the hydra master turns right around and and sells the green glides also
 

Kevin B

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
1,457
Location
Coeur D Alene ID
Name
Kevin Bunce
First of all, the cts 450 is not a max 450, but I would agree that HM is kind of flirting with greed in the CD issue. CD pays them for manufacturing, and HM loves it. CD is responsible for some of the good changes to the RX.
 

AnnaAgostino

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
69
Hi Lisa :)

I usually don't like to read loooooong (lol) posts but I read all of yours and I'm sorry for all that you and Greenie and have gone through. You know I love you both :)

I wish I had tons of money, I would gladly donate it to you both to continue this fight. Maybe if all of the cleaners on this board and other boards that sympathize and agree with your fight donate what they can on a regular basis, might that help? Like you said, it is for the good of the industry :)

For what it's worth as far as Chem Dry is concerned, from my experience with our customers, they are NOT a threat to us. We have many customers who have had Chem Dry and were very dissatisfied with the results. So 1 hr drying time means absolutely nothing if you don't satisfy and keep your customer. I also have heard over time the cleaners who have left their franchise.

I always wondered about, if their dry method was so great why are they introducing HWE :)

Good luck to you both :)

Anna
 

Greenie

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
6,820
Good changes to the RX?

Like what?

The restrictive 1.5" vacuum hose from head to handle?
The reduction of 5 jets down to just three?
The reduction of flow from low cost vee jets to overpriced cone jets?
The addition of a "shroud" on the front of the machine for advertising label that prevents getting under even more furniture?

HM was denied the ability to use the hole skids, instead left with the 1/2 slot HE skids as a fallback...and we all know how wonderful that is.
I think they've done more harm to the machine than help it.

HRI takes plenty from the hot water extraction industry, but gives very little back.
 

Doug D

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,047
Location
Spearfish SD
Name
Doug Dimick
Greenie is right! Changed my rx20 to the New and Improved 1/2 slots and 3 cone jets. What a Joke!! Changed back to full slots and green glides. Also changed the 3 cone jets back to the original jets. Wasted my 300 bucks on their new and improved junk!!
 

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