GreenSeal wants to Take Away d-Limonene & Fragrance

Larry Cobb

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Here is a quote from ISSA I just received:

"ISSA Chimes in on Proposed Revisions to Green Seal’s Cleaning Product Standard

ISSA Positively Impacts Voting Process

January 31, 2008
ISSA called upon Green Seal to devise a path forward that would drive out the substantial costs associated with revisions it has proposed to its environmental standard for institutional and industrial cleaners (GS-37), in comments submitted January 30 by Bill Balek, Director of Legislative Affairs, ISSA.

In addition to the costs associated with the price of certification, ISSA noted in its comments that the proposed revisions to GS-37 would likely require the generation of additional data at the price of thousands of dollars per product. “Ultimately, if left unchecked, these and other costs associated with certification will act as a financial barrier to small and medium sized formulators of cleaning products,” according to Balek.

In its comments, ISSA also urged Green Seal to address the process of transitioning to a new GS-37 standard, an issue that heretofore has gone unaddressed. Given the huge financial and operational implications the transition process has for industry, ISSA’s Balek urged Green Seal to consider a process that would “grandfather” currently certified products to soften the blow.

ISSA’s comments were submitted as part of the public comment phase in the process of revising GS-37. Green Seal anticipates that it will release a final revised version of GS-37 by June 2008 after the proposed revisions undergo one more comment period that will be limited only to registered stakeholders.

Other issues addressed in ISSA’s comments include proposed VOC limitations, packaging requirements, asthmagens, dispensing system concentrates and other related subjects."

At their website, ISSA says that Green Seal is proposing:

1. To limit VOC's to 1% for Carpet Cleaning products.
(ISSA is proposing 4%)

2. To Eliminate Fragrances & low-vapor pressure solvents completely.
(ISSA is proposing 2%)

3. To require biodegradability testing for every ingredient.
(This eliminates many raw materials & ISSA proposes EPA methods to predict biodegradability)

4. To set limits for d-Limonene and terpenes.
(ISSA is proposing no limits)

5. Wants package weight reduced by 20%.
(This would increase shipping leaks. ISSA proposes 10%)

6. Wants new testing with an estimated additional cost of $4350 to $6350 PER PRODUCT.
(This would increase costs significantly for carpet cleaners.)

ISSA is also recommending that Green Seal recognize CleanGredients with EPA criteria as suitable for GS-37.

As cleaners, you need to stop Green Seal before it is required by LAW in most commercial buildings.

Larry Cobb
 

Duane Oxley

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"We're from the government and we're here to help you."

Uh. Huh...

The thing is that they're like a salesman with his proverbial foot in the door. Once they get in, they don't relinquish ground. They plant firmly and edge in more as much and soon as possible.

This is definitely something that should be fought from every angle...
 

steve g

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lee senter will prolly chime in any moment and say how evil you are for opposing this, everyone is gonna die if they use this stuff
 

Grant D

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Green Seal Standards

So are you objecting to the changes in the Green Seal because many "good" cleaners would no longer qualify for the standard, or are you saying that the changes don't make sense from a "green" point of view?

If I'm not mistaken, there currently are products with the green seal with ingredients such as butyl, which IMO calls into question the entire standard.
 

Larry Cobb

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Steve;

This is about freedom of choice, Steve.

Legislators are taking it away, because few of them have the sense to challenge any "green" bill.

Larry
 

Larry Cobb

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Mikey;

It's a well-financed national movement.

Green Seal sets the standards, USBC (building standards group) and LEED (Leadership thru Environmental & Energy Design) set building designations such as Gold, Silver, Platinum (sound familiar).

To maintain your commercial building standard, you must use GS-37 chemicals in the building. So it is speced on all contract cleaning.

Now, schools, state agencies and local governments have joined the movement and agreed to implement the Green Seal standards.

Larry
 

The Great Oz

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GreenSeal hasn't won everywhere. New Jersey and several other states have rejected their guidelines as problematic, and their underhanded tactics in trying to write themselves into law as the only green guideline have angered many in government facilities management positions.

I think the only reason they agreed to open a review of their guidelines was to try and assuage their growing list of critics, although I doubt they'll actually listen to anything that comes from the cleaning industry.

Chemical manufacturers that have done nothing wrong bristle at the heavy handed and financially onerous GS BS guidelines, but manufacturers have also been pretty free and easy about lying about their products. A recent "big announcement" about a green cleaning product made me look at their MSDS to see what they'd done differently. Between the "proprietary" designation being used to hide the ingredients and the "not tested" under health effects, you know why the GreenSeals of the world exist.
 

encapman

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How is it possible for a Butyl based detergent to receive Green Seal certification?

ind_prod_con_hd_fam_gs.gif


Notice that 2-butoxyethanol (Butyl Cellosolve) is listed under Section 3 on their MSDS sheet...
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/07_msds_simple_green_pad.pdf

Now take a look at this test data relating to the health effects from Butyl...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/rtecs/kj82d818.html

In summary:
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol can affect you when breathed in and by passing through your skin.
* Exposure may cause reproductive damage. handle with extreme caution.
* Exposure to 2-Butoxy Ethanol can irritate the eyes, nose, mouth and throat.
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol can cause headache, dizziness, lightheadedness, confusion, and passing out.
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol may damage the liver and kidneys.
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol is regulated by OSHA cited by ACGIH, DOT and NISOH.

How in the world are we expected to believe that a product that contains Butyl could be considered GREEN? Seems like the only thing GREEN in this scenario was the money that got paid for the certification.

With glaring discrepancies such as this, it makes a person question the validity of the program altogether. Kind of makes you scratch your head and say "hmmm" doesn't it?

.
 

Jimmy L

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I've read articles saying that all solvents are toxic including what some think is an all natural one....D-Limonene.


So don't just pick on Buytl.
 

Jimmy L

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Then I guess BOTH of us better stay out of it?


Anybody can do a little research on the internet to find these things out.
 

randy

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encapman said:
How is it possible for a Butyl based detergent to receive Green Seal certification?

ind_prod_con_hd_fam_gs.gif


Notice that 2-butoxyethanol (Butyl Cellosolve) is listed under Section 3 on their MSDS sheet...
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/07_msds_simple_green_pad.pdf

Now take a look at this test data relating to the health effects from Butyl...
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/rtecs/kj82d818.html

In summary:
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol can affect you when breathed in and by passing through your skin.
* Exposure may cause reproductive damage. handle with extreme caution.
* Exposure to 2-Butoxy Ethanol can irritate the eyes, nose, mouth and throat.
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol can cause headache, dizziness, lightheadedness, confusion, and passing out.
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol may damage the liver and kidneys.
* 2-Butoxy Ethanol is regulated by OSHA cited by ACGIH, DOT and NISOH.

How in the world are we expected to believe that a product that contains Butyl could be considered GREEN? Seems like the only thing GREEN in this scenario was the money that got paid for the certification.

With glaring discrepancies such as this, it makes a person question the validity of the program altogether. Kind of makes you scratch your head and say "hmmm" doesn't it?

.

Nice job Rick, Greenseal should form their own little mafia "familly" with CRI & IICRC.
 

Dolly Llama

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steve g said:
lee senter will prolly chime in

Honestly Steve, Lee is one of the few guys i trust on this.

Most of the other grEEn frEEks really don't have a clue what they're using.

label hemlock and "all natural, green" chem and they'll think it's great

..L.T.A.
 

Larry Cobb

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Larry;

Your make a good point.

Whether a cleaning ingredient is natural or synthetic...

has no bearing on the degree of toxicity.

Larry Cobb
 

leesenter

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Steve G is obviously an angry man.
Once again the Great OZ is right on the money.
The MSDS I see from many small chemical manufacturers are full of trade secrets and "trust me SARA clauses".
If all of us actually read labels and MSDS and made sure our employees did--the nasty stuff wouldn't be so nasty.
For example butyl enters the bloodstream immediately on contact with skin, but many of us don't wear gloves.
I have decided to use safe stuff as often as possible, we still have the nasties when we need them.
Its all about awareness and THE RIGHT TO KNOW OF HAZARDS. When a chemical is hazardous-know it and respect it.
I believe if the cleaning industry was more aware of the chemicals we used we would not always be using the nasty stuff for all situations. We would then use it as necessary and the incidents that happen as a result of their use would be greatly reduced.
Or we could all act like Steve G and pretend nobody is being affected.
 

Jimmy L

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The D-Lime products are also toxic just don't pick on buytl.
 

Jeremy

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What does butyl do to you anyway? I know it os bad for you but I have no clue what it does to your body. I'm guessing Cancer &/or Birth Defects.
 

Larry Cobb

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Lee is correct.

The primary route of hazard from "butyl" grease solvents is by skin contact.

Avoid getting it on your skin.

High concentrations are also irritating to breathe.

There are safer alternatives, but some of them smell worse.

We have switched to d-Limonene in some of our products, but it is not as effective at the same concentration.

If Green Seal has their way, none of even the safer solvents will be available.

Larry
 

Larry Cobb

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Ron;

We have been trying to get chemical manufacturers to oppose Green Seal for the last couple of years.

Some have been effective, but most have not.

ISSA has been opposing them from their member concerns.

We have decided to support CRI Seal of Approval for carpet cleaning products. While they are not ideal, they have the national clout to deal with Green Seal.

Larry
 

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