Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
Dream on. How would you like to fit an exhaust diverter system on to this pile of crap?
N.F.W.
N.F.W.
Guys that think the V-AT PTO driven truck is still viable
- Thread starter Bob Foster
- Start date
GeneMiller
Member
diesel burner, no diverter necessary
gene
gene
rhino1
Member
The party is over, cheap, practical, and convenient is the new chic.
There will always be those that will absolutely need the biggest, best, most expensive - but not enough to justify a real manufacturer to bite into this apple.
There will always be those that will absolutely need the biggest, best, most expensive - but not enough to justify a real manufacturer to bite into this apple.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
your subject title has nothing to do with what is mentioned in your post.
their are three very important parts of the big truck.
1. is a big diesel with its torque, pushing a big blower and high capacity, high quality pump.
2. is preheating the water to greater than 170 before it even enters the system. this is only accomplished ( when i say accomplished i also refere to being consistant) by having the coolant of the powerplant you are using proccessing or transferring enough consistant heat thruought cleaning process. in other words it would not work well to have a similar passive hx system running off a powerplant that is only being used while in transport and not also while cleaning.
3. having the large enough capacity to work for extended periods of time. ie having large fresh tanks and haveing large waste tank. having large fuel capacity on the the truck itself( at least 32 gallons). and last having a large space to fully equip the truck for a wide variety of the services you provide.
the exhaust diverter is (imo) not even worth worring or stressing about, just go fuel fired and forget about most of the problems associated with the vortex heating oil transfer system.
their are three very important parts of the big truck.
1. is a big diesel with its torque, pushing a big blower and high capacity, high quality pump.
2. is preheating the water to greater than 170 before it even enters the system. this is only accomplished ( when i say accomplished i also refere to being consistant) by having the coolant of the powerplant you are using proccessing or transferring enough consistant heat thruought cleaning process. in other words it would not work well to have a similar passive hx system running off a powerplant that is only being used while in transport and not also while cleaning.
3. having the large enough capacity to work for extended periods of time. ie having large fresh tanks and haveing large waste tank. having large fuel capacity on the the truck itself( at least 32 gallons). and last having a large space to fully equip the truck for a wide variety of the services you provide.
the exhaust diverter is (imo) not even worth worring or stressing about, just go fuel fired and forget about most of the problems associated with the vortex heating oil transfer system.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
and even if you could get a diverter in there somewhere the cost would be astronomical to build as it would take very expensive metals and construction to deal with the heat the motor will be producing while in regeneration.
A
amazingcleansc
Guest
At the risk of sounding like a dumbass, let me interject this.
What about how hot the gas is coming out of the very back? You could attach an exhaust diverter directly to the back of the pipe, plumb it down and around around to an E3 in the normal spot? My exhaust diverter is about 2 feet long and 8 inches wide but most of the length is extra pipe and half of the width is the metal housing for the lever that engages the flap. I think realistically you could make one that is about a foot long and 5 inches wide. You would just need to make sure there is a shorter exhaust tip is all to keep it well away from that tire.
As for regeneration, if the engine has to run hotter, great. Your thermostat will engage quicker, your E1 will heat up your fresh tank quicker, (which helps a problem Ive heard plenty of bitching about) and then ANY excess heat is dissipated in the radiator before it recirculates to the engine.
The reason I'm sure the radiator can handle it is because when my thermostat was in the wrong place and put the E1 after the radiator in the loop, the pipes going to the E1 were cold. not lukewarm. not slightly warmer than the air, they were COLD.
thats just a beautiful thing.
And if the exhaust is hotter, well, that's a great thing too, isn't it?
also with less diesel emissions your e3 will stay cleaner longer and probably do a better job since it wont gunk up as quickly. A damn fine concept! thank you for the picture.
It makes me excited about the future.
Theres always a silver lining.
What about how hot the gas is coming out of the very back? You could attach an exhaust diverter directly to the back of the pipe, plumb it down and around around to an E3 in the normal spot? My exhaust diverter is about 2 feet long and 8 inches wide but most of the length is extra pipe and half of the width is the metal housing for the lever that engages the flap. I think realistically you could make one that is about a foot long and 5 inches wide. You would just need to make sure there is a shorter exhaust tip is all to keep it well away from that tire.
As for regeneration, if the engine has to run hotter, great. Your thermostat will engage quicker, your E1 will heat up your fresh tank quicker, (which helps a problem Ive heard plenty of bitching about) and then ANY excess heat is dissipated in the radiator before it recirculates to the engine.
The reason I'm sure the radiator can handle it is because when my thermostat was in the wrong place and put the E1 after the radiator in the loop, the pipes going to the E1 were cold. not lukewarm. not slightly warmer than the air, they were COLD.
thats just a beautiful thing.
And if the exhaust is hotter, well, that's a great thing too, isn't it?
also with less diesel emissions your e3 will stay cleaner longer and probably do a better job since it wont gunk up as quickly. A damn fine concept! thank you for the picture.
It makes me excited about the future.
Theres always a silver lining.
Anything can be done for the right price. But this board has made available the info to get a lot of bang for the buck. Many things have changed for CC'ing the last four years, not including a recession-minded industry.
I think the V was created especially for the business that has to dual wand (commercial), has employees that can turn the machine on and clean for as long as the job takes, and is making enough money to sell the V after the lease is over and before the truck has started needing repairs.
That is probably a small percentage of cleaners. But if you want dual wand, diesel powered, lots of hot water, and very dependable there are more choices than just a VAT. A Genesis DXT without a blower HX can heat the water to 180. A diesel or propane post heater can then boost it up to 230 atw very easily. You can pick your truck or van and it will last a long time since it is only running while you are driving, not cleaning.
How long will a Genny and a Sprinter last if taken care of? The numbers don't lie......only salesmen do.
I think the V was created especially for the business that has to dual wand (commercial), has employees that can turn the machine on and clean for as long as the job takes, and is making enough money to sell the V after the lease is over and before the truck has started needing repairs.
That is probably a small percentage of cleaners. But if you want dual wand, diesel powered, lots of hot water, and very dependable there are more choices than just a VAT. A Genesis DXT without a blower HX can heat the water to 180. A diesel or propane post heater can then boost it up to 230 atw very easily. You can pick your truck or van and it will last a long time since it is only running while you are driving, not cleaning.
How long will a Genny and a Sprinter last if taken care of? The numbers don't lie......only salesmen do.
Carpet Cleaning Fool
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2008
- Messages
- 1,496
- Name
- George Valliant
V/AT ain't no rythm man.
Too me it makes good good sense.
m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3WKl-1jNMm]
Too me it makes good good sense.
m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3WKl-1jNMm]
hogjowl
Idiot™
Bob's a good guy who is always just trying to fit in.
He doesn't mean any harm.
He doesn't mean any harm.
ronbeatty
Member
Michael has put the case for the big trucks right where it needs to be. The need for efficiency in our daily operations has never been more important than it is today. As my business diversifies further into hard floor service, i need to carry more equipment.
I bought my 07 Vortex's to evade the problems with the emissions controls in the later models.
I think that a slide in with the large heliflow blowers for quieter operation, a diesel engine sized to the horse power needed to drive the blower and pump on a slide in frame would be the ultimate cleaning platform. The big slide in would also solve the interdependency between the truck and the PTO application.
I bought my 07 Vortex's to evade the problems with the emissions controls in the later models.
I think that a slide in with the large heliflow blowers for quieter operation, a diesel engine sized to the horse power needed to drive the blower and pump on a slide in frame would be the ultimate cleaning platform. The big slide in would also solve the interdependency between the truck and the PTO application.
Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 8,870
The PTO driven V-AT truck is still not viable for many other reasons than the emission systems.
Cost
Weight distribution and axle loads
Poor use of space
The biggest challenge any replacement will be consistent non-problematic high flow rinse delivery.
By the way, the picture shown is a 2010 Isuzu chassis.
Cost
Weight distribution and axle loads
Poor use of space
The biggest challenge any replacement will be consistent non-problematic high flow rinse delivery.
By the way, the picture shown is a 2010 Isuzu chassis.
GeneMiller
Member
i bought my box because i'm getting older and doing maintenance is a breeze. i can stand straight up and even put a bucket to sit on with out being cramped. my setup is not using the space to it's max but it carries what i need, which is very little. any extra cost of ownership is made up by the rolling bill board. i looked at the vortex for that reason only. i wanted to be able to stand and do my maintenance. the only reason i didn' t buy it was because it looked like it would have to many issues. i guess i was right. i was going to look again at the one built by blueline , a company i love, but i guess i won't get that chance.
gene
gene
Brian R
Member
Carpet Cleaning Fool said:
It's "Ain't no "riddle" man"
A
amazingcleansc
Guest
and after thinking about it, less diesel emissions would probably help keep exhaust diverters from locking up. Phew.
HEY GUYS! our prayers are answered.
there are so many negative nancies around this joint.
3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E082RnaLgGQ3]
HEY GUYS! our prayers are answered.
there are so many negative nancies around this joint.
3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E082RnaLgGQ3]
sweendogg
Member
Yes the problem with emissions and being able to fit a heat echanger off of these systems makes the vortex a hard system to realize. However I think the real problem is the price that deters so many people. As many have pointed out, why have a cabo over V when you could have a two slide ins with similar capacity vehcile like two C4's for about 70K roughly. If someone could produce even a PTO drivin monster blower with as several have suggested a diesel burner or little giant package, and could get the price down to the 65 to 70K area, I think you might see a commercial viable option. The big trucks were not chosen because they had the engine power. They had large enough weight capacities to hold the 200 plus gallons of water and a waste tanks and all of the othe equipment cleaners want to take with them to a job with out overloading the vehicle, and making for an unsafe driving situation.
