H/X temps ATW vs. LP

[FastEddie]

In order to get 230 plus ATW with a HX TM, how big an engine is needed?

I'm getting 230 plus ATW with a 27HP liquid cooled(no exhaust H/X's), twin coolant H/X's with a LG 2HT afterburner.

So is the cost of LP actually less compared to having a big engine burn more gas in order to get the same heat ATW?

 

[R W]

Well, I actually get about 220-230 at the wand with the Genesis. That's a 50 HP Ford engine running at about 14-15 vac. Burning about 2.5-3.0 GPH.

I wouldn't want to be bothered with dual fuels......

 

[Loren Egland]

Shawn at Steam Way told me in a side by side comparison of the Powerclean and the Powermatic, there was a 50 degree difference with a lie detector and using the same hoses and wand.

Loren

 

[adamh]

The Gen runs at 2.5-3 gal. an hour?!?!

The Vortex/AT does better than that. I am shocked.

 

[brocksdad]

My step-dads genesis with a Nissan gets better fuel economy than that, but it is fuel injected not car-berated

 

[R W]

My Genesis is the Ford carberated......poor fuel economy, but also dual wand with it 80% of the time, so 2.5-3.0 gph isn't that bad.

 

[Duane Oxley]

Eddie...

It can be done with a 27 kohler and 47 blower... using a #6 jet at 500 PSI... about 1.5 GPM...

I believe that it can be done with smaller components than that... 8)

Time will tell...

 

[FastEddie]

Duane, that sounds impressive. Would the blower be overdriven while providing higher temps to the blower H/X?

 

[Guest]

Well, Waldo does 465 and can start his front yard on fire.


He has proof too. Just ask the Cedar Rapids Fire Dept.....or ask him how many stitches he needed after his wife kicked the schmidt out of him.


No heat exchanger for Jr there....



Chad

 

[Duane Oxley]

Eddie...

Yes...

 

[Greenie]

I hate to be the dark cloud, but too much generalization.

What rpm is the engine being run at? Is it water cooled?
Which engine?
Is a blower HX used?
What lift is it run at?
Preheated fresh tank?

I credit Duane for at least setting some reference points, but even 1.5 gpm, is that sustained, or reflecting a 50% duty cycle, makes a world of difference.

You can't cheat the BTU.

For me "high heat" numbers are bunk, I'm not impressed with "advertised" heat potential.

I am impressed with "sustained heat".
I would rather have 200º with 09 flow all day long than 240º with 06 flow that rapidly drops off if you stay on the trigger too long.

I am all for accurate numbers when comparing units, should be a standard set and agreed upon, everything from vac & pressure to temp.

 

[KBRENNY]

I checked this on my last job with a hose run of 150 feet, outside temp at 33 deg, and running off water coming from a garden hose. I am running a 20 hp honda at 3400 rpm through a small modified heat exchanger (engine exh only) that i believe came off a genesis. This will heat my water to around 150 deg max. Then it goes to a lg 4ht water heater which I have set at 235 deg at the unit (my solution hose is only rated to 231 so i will not go any higher). I am running the parker 1/4 inch thermoplastic hose on a live reel with 300 feet of hose, and 4 #2 jets on my wand. My at the wand temp ran at 210 deg ( I have a temp gauge permanently mounted on my wand valve) and never moved more than 5 deg up or down for an entire 6 hour job. I have tried to trigger the wand for extremely long times to see where the drop off point is and i can hold the trigger open for over 9 minutes continuously before I see the atw temp drop to 195 and it will hold there for longer than i was willing to hold it open. On extended jobs like this one the water temp is hot enough to occasionally cause the stiff grey flexaust 2" hose to weaken and collapse the first 10 to 12" off the wand and I have to disconnect it and let it suck cold air for a minute before continuing. This job was done from 11pm to 5am I also did a 1 hour job that afternoon. After running for a little over 6 hours at the above specs I filled my propane tank (which was full when I started) and I used 2.9 gallons at $2 a gallon for $5.80 total cost in propane.

If you are reading this Greenie thank you so much for all your products, knowledge, and help. You have definitely made me a better carpet cleaner. I got all the plumbing supplies to do my 2" to 2 1/2" TM piping swap and will let you know when I'm done! Also got a 16k grain water softener to install this weekend!

 

[Duane Oxley]

Hey, Greenie...

The "last thing" I'll do at this point is describe the design in specifics, until the patent is applied for... But of course, the blower heat has to be used and "tweaked" a bit.

I've always used the constant flow standard as temperature evaluation test basis... It's the only "honest" one, in my opinion. And I've always positioned the temperature sensor for such tests at the wand valve. (If you research it, you'll find that the "ATM" vs. "ATW" terminology is one I started back on the original CleanFax board. I have no intention of abandoning it now...)

Perhaps, for now, the best thing for me to do is remain silent about it until I'm ready to get into those specifics...

Duane

 

[FastEddie]

I think it's a joke with the manufacturer's lame claims of temps on there machines. Tiny jets, temp gauges mounted on the H/X's. Liars.................

I heard of one manufacturer to test temps ATW thru 25ft of hose. LOL!

 

[Greenie]

Duane, I don't expect you to share confidential info, just trying to get some clarity on all this for all involved.
1.5gpm sustained is pretty good flow, so those numbers are respectable.

ATW & ATM are all yours Baby!