Hazards of Solvent Protectors?

[Johnny]

Are solvent protectors a fire or inhalation hazard until dry? A whole house full of carpet with freshly-applied solvent seems it would be.

Is the only benefit of solvent protector over water-based protector its reduced drying time?

Whose is best? Cobb's? Hardball?

Much obliged.

 

[Ron Lippold]

i love hardball great product and i have never blown anything up by accident. :shock:

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Stick a q tip in a solvent based protector and get a butane lighter. Yep, they are flammable and you need real ventilation in a home if you are applying it.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Using Hydrocarbon solvents as a carrier for upholstery has long been held as a favorable means to both allow the protector ease of entry into tight knits, but also is simpler as far as determining compatibility with fabric issues where use of water might be a concern. However, in relative terms the use of High VOC content products in small amounts as used in most upholstery protection jobs usually makes some of the health concerns less of an issue. But when you raise the amount you are going to be use by tenfold or more, you may have to re-think the risk versus benefit equation.

Can carpet protectors that use hydrocarbon solvents be used safely? In my opinion, sure they can.

But can they be used "practicably"? That's another question.

Whether it is capable of being effected, done, or put into practice or feasible in a safe manner depends on a variety of factors being present. Hydrocarbon Solvents being used as carriers for a protectant are going to have an enormous amount of VOC's present that you will want to minimize any human contact with.

Be very conscious of the safeguards that the directions will indicate. Some protection can be afforded by an organic vapor respirator, but realize that the use of this is an expendable item with a finite capability in terms of how long it should be used before replacement. Also, the inhabitants of the dwelling should be aware that whatever dry times are needed, precautions should be made to allow ventilation of all the VOC's before unprotected persons are again allowed entry or exposure.

Yeah, I've heard all the stuff about "cigarettes being worse for you than some carpet protectant", or you get a "worse dose lighting your BBQ", but not all people are as chemically insensitive or invulnerable as yourself.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Johnny;

1. Solvent-based fluorochemicals provide the best protection available ...

2. Dynachem Ultraseal & Impregnator are NOT flammable or combustible.

3. VOC-exempt solvents are available at additional cost, for customers requiring them.

The fluorochemicals are the most hazardous component of protectors.

Larry

 

[J Scott W]

Prperly used, any protector can be used safely. However, solvents applied over a large area (a house full of carpets rather than a piece of two of upholstery) increase the health risks and the fire hazard.

Remember that the water or the solvent is just the carrier. It gets the protector where it needs to go. It is the flourochemical that provides the protection.

Although any protector can be harmful if inhaled, I would diagree that the flourochemical is the most dangerous component. The harmful stage for our industry is during application and immediately afterward if a fine mist is atomized and hangs around in the breathable airspace.

The new shorter chain C6 formulas seem to offer somewhat better protection with much less health risk.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I'm with Scott. I disagree with the notion that the Fluorochemical is the most hazardous part of a protector. That is bit like saying that the sulfuric acid in a battery is the most hazardous component of a vehicle in the event of an accident.

One of the single greatest importance of the nature of any hazard, is how likely you are to have a negative interaction with it. The fluorochemical may have hazardous properties, but it is also the least likely to present itself in a harmful manner during application. If the hydrocarbon solvent carrier is volatile, which it is clearly designed to be, the VOC's are going to be inhaled in large doses if precautions are not taken. I would say then that you have a 100% chance of interacting with the product in a negative manner, irrespective of any possible unlikely hazard the non-volatile fluorchemical is going to have sitting on the carpet fiber. Whether they are exempt VOC's is inconsequential, because such exemptions are usually for environmental concerns (e.g. ozone depletion or global warming contribution), and not necessarily having any effect on acute or chronic health considerations whatsoever.

All the hydrocarbon solvent containing products make a broad assumption. That is the user, and all others with potential to inhale the evaporating carrier will take all necessary precautions as outlined on the MSDS sheet. If everyone heeds those directives, the hazards are minimized. If you don't, then I would say that a water-based carpet protector alternative is going to be much safer, and have a relatively much smaller hazard "footprint".

 

[Johnny]

Does anybody here use solvent protectors on carpet?

 

[Ryan]

Is Maxim Advanced a solvent protector?

 

[leesenter]

I have met over a dozen people who have had serious acute reactions when applying solvent protectors. This includes one person who was hospitalized with shruken lungs.
One of the most basic rules of health and safety is to substitute hazardous processes or chemicals with safer processes/chemicals.

 

[J Scott W]

Is Maxim Advanced a solvent protector?

Maxim Advanced Carpet Protector is a water based formula. It is not solvent based.

Maxim has both a water based and a solvent based product for upholstery.

 

[Ryan]

Is Maxim Advanced a solvent protector?

Maxim Advanced Carpet Protector is a water based formula. It is not solvent based.

Maxim has both a water based and a solvent based product for upholstery.

How big of a deal is it if I've been using the carpet protector on upholstery? :shock:

 

[J Scott W]

How big of a deal is it if I've been using the carpet protector on upholstery? :shock:

If you and the customer are happy, then all is fine. It certainly is not doing any damage.

The upholstery protector does have a few special features that you don't get with carpet protector.

1) The upholstery protector contains Dye-Loc. This stabilizes due and prevent issues with bleeding and to some exten issues of browning. One of the reasons some folks choose to use a solvent on upholstery is to prevent bleeding or browning.

2) The polymers in the upholstery / fabric protector are much more flexible. Protector wears off carpet mostly due to abrasion from foot traffic. But protector comes off upholstery mostly becuase the fibers bend and move when someone sits down, shifts their weight around, gets up and so forth. Eventually the polymers crack and break off from the fabric.

You won't have this issue with Maxim Advanced Upholstery Fabric Protector with Dye-Loc. The flexible polymers keep it in place much longer than competitive products and longer than the less flexible carpet protector polymers.

3) Surfactants in carpet protectors are intended to make the protector penetrtae down into the pile of the carpet. Upholstery fabric is so thin it does not need this ability. Rather it should spread out and level out well. If it penetrated it, the protector would only be wetting the stuffing or filling material. It would also take longer to dry than if the protector stayed on the thin layer of fabric.

Longer drying could make wicking and other issues more likely.


A point I have made more than once before, there is a lot more involved in the formulation of cleaning products than the average cleaner realizes.

 

[The Great Oz]

If inhalation is the primary concern, make sure you use a low pressure spray and a large spray tip that doesn't atomize the product into such tiny particles that it will drift up into your face. I recall Prezant testing using OMS carried protector (for fire department regulations) showed the droplets drifting no farther than a few inches from the spray, so we weren't required to build a spray booth or wear respirators to use it.

If the solvent is flammable, which is typical, you can add being careful around open flame. Large droplets of OMS may not drift much, or be particularly flammable in a bucket, but when you spray it into the air it becomes a latent ball of fire. Try it. Outdoors. You'll be more aware of baseboard and portable heaters when you're working.

Solvent odor from either chlorinated or OMS carried products can be a concern for pet birds.

Ryan, the biggest concern with using protectant made for carpet would be over application leading to sticky residue, with a side concern of possible damage to the fabric if you use a water-carried product on a water sensitive fabric.

 

[Jose Smith]

I've got a great question about solvent based protectors for Shawn, Scott, or Bryan.

How effective is a dry solvent on a wet carpet? Will it bond as well as on a dry carpet?

Since the solvent is the carrier for the fourochemical, how can the solvent penetrate the moisture enough to deposit the fourochemical to the desired areas?

Jose Smith

 

[leesenter]

Water based protector is just as dangerous to birds as solvent protector.

 

[The Great Oz]

Thanks Lee, I guess we've only killed them with solvent.

Hard to find those tiny sympathy bouquets.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I've got a great question about solvent based protectors for Shawn, Scott, or Bryan.

How effective is a dry solvent on a wet carpet? Will it bond as well as on a dry carpet?

Since the solvent is the carrier for the fourochemical, how can the solvent penetrate the moisture enough to deposit the fourochemical to the desired areas?

Jose Smith

Jose;

If you are talking about damp nylon or other synthetic fibers,
The solvent-based fluorochemical will have more affinity for the synthetic surface than the water will.

That is also why you get better spreading on the carpet.

Larry

 

[Jose Smith]

I'm talking about anything. So you answered half the question.

I actually do more fabric than carpet, so the majority I spray it on would be natural fibers.

Since you didn't answer that, am I to assume it will not bond as well?

Jose Smith

 

[Larry Cobb]

Jose;

I have only done the comparison testing on carpet fibers.

Bonding is very good on natural fibers (wool, silk, etc)

Lots of our customers use it daily on designer fabrics.

Larry

 

[Jose Smith]

Larry, my question has still not been answered. I use a solvent-based fabric protector daily on natural fabrics, too. I do not like to spray it on damp fabrics. I will, but will not warranty it.

I have filled up my sprayer on a rare rainy day here in Southern California. I have seen what a little spilled solvent does on a wet street. Therefore, I would imagine it acts the same way on a wet/damp fabric.

I would like to know if there are any studies done by you regarding this issue; a dry solvents capability of bonding to a natural fabric in the presence of moisture, and is the bond as strong as the bond of a dry solvent sprayed on a dry natural fabric.

Jose Smith

 

[Johnny]

Larry, my question has still not been answered. I use a solvent-based fabric protector daily on natural fabrics, too. I do not like to spray it on damp fabrics. I will, but will not warranty it.

I have filled up my sprayer on a rare rainy day here in Southern California. I have seen what a little spilled solvent does on a wet street. Therefore, I would imagine it acts the same way on a wet/damp fabric.

I would like to know if there are any studies done by you regarding this issue; a dry solvents capability of bonding to a natural fabric in the presence of moisture, and is the bond as strong as the bond of a dry solvent sprayed on a dry natural fabric.

Jose Smith

Good question.

Larry?