As the title says, I've been thinking a bit lately as to which is better? High heat or high flow? Some of you guys are lucky enough to be able to have both but that's not really my case. I am running a white magic pro 1900. For those of you that don't know this machine it it has a 5.9 blower turned by a 52 horse ford engine. I'm running 2.5 inch hose except for the last 40-50 ft or so where I cut back to 2 inch. This machine has a pre heater which pulls heat from the cooling system as well as an exhaust heat exchanger, but no blower exchanger. I use high production tools, or should I say high flow tools right now but my heat definitely suffers because of it. My wand is a quad jet ti running 03s, I have a 360i with the 4 jet head but I'm not sure what size jets r in there, and my Hoss is set up like Jim Martins with the long spray bars and a needle control valve. My next purchase is likely to be a Zipper which again is high flow. So my question is this, is high flow worth the heat loss or am I better off choking things down and maintaining higher heat? Secondly do any of you have any ideas on how to get more heat out of my machine? Thanks all in advance.
Heat or flow?
- Thread starter jwfoulk12
- Start date
Zee
Supportive Member
I can say it comfortably that there is a limit of how much heat is valuable while cleaning.
I can do 280 if I want to....but that will not help cleaning wise. You need to find the sweetspot of heat and flow amount where the water has the flushing ability.
If you go too hot, all you do is "pop and hiss" at the wand and lose the kinetic energy of the water flushing away contamination.
I never set my heater over 250 because its not going clean better just hotter.
By the time you are wanding, most of the work should have been done by your prespray and mechanical agitation.
Wanding, is just a last step rinsing action.
I run 10 flow on my 5 jet Greenhorn but sometimes I run 20flow on the same wand...no noticeable difference as far as heat goes with the diesel fired heater.
I can do 280 if I want to....but that will not help cleaning wise. You need to find the sweetspot of heat and flow amount where the water has the flushing ability.
If you go too hot, all you do is "pop and hiss" at the wand and lose the kinetic energy of the water flushing away contamination.
I never set my heater over 250 because its not going clean better just hotter.
By the time you are wanding, most of the work should have been done by your prespray and mechanical agitation.
Wanding, is just a last step rinsing action.
I run 10 flow on my 5 jet Greenhorn but sometimes I run 20flow on the same wand...no noticeable difference as far as heat goes with the diesel fired heater.
Loren Egland
Member
Why not just add a propane or fuel oil heater? You may not have to use it all the time, but you will be ready for anything.
cu
Supportive Member
Id agree with Loren, add the propane heater if you want to stick with hi flow equipment, or go back to reg flow and slow down a bit and get the work done.
And as Zee said a lot of the hard work can be done by using the right pre spray , scrubbing it in and some dwell time.
And as Zee said a lot of the hard work can be done by using the right pre spray , scrubbing it in and some dwell time.
Jim Martin
Supportive Member
Its not all just about heat...you have got to factor in recovery.......or you will just shoot yourself in the foot...........
Zee
Supportive Member
That's why I said that every machine every wand every tech needs to balance out what works best...some don't want dwell time so they may want more heat but then (depending on the tm) may not be able to go high flow.
Find out how you wana clean (dwell time? prescrub? splash n dash? or the combination of those?) And balance it with your equipment capabilities.
Ron Lippold
RIP
A 5-9 blower is plenty of recovery, lets face it your not running 500 foot runs, high flow is the way to go, I keep my heat down to aboit 220.
I definitely have the recovery. I use a good prespray and almost always prescrub with a crb or cimex. Then follow up with the wand, 360, or Hoss. Just trying to figure out what's the best mixture of heat verses flow. As far as adding another burner I've thought of it but 1) I'm limited on space, my Chevy extended van is pretty jammed with all the other equipment, and 2) I'm not sure I want the additional hassle of a 2nd fuel source.
I'd be happy if I could run 220 but I don't think I'm close. I haven't checked what it's been holding at the machine since all the cold weather has set in but I know I don't have the blistering steam that a lot of you guys have shown in different videos around the board.
Zee
Supportive Member
Also worth thinking about the prescrub double action. As in IF you prescrub, -by default you just did more dwell time too, so it is a win win.
Vivers
Supportive Member
If you had to choose you got to go with high flow because thoroughly rinsing the carpet out of pre-treatment and Contaminants is the most important. IMO
hogjowl
Idiot™
I'm sorry you've been waiting all this time for my response. I didn't mean to keep you waiting. I was just so entertained in the Pro 1200 bashing thread that I forgot to check for life elsewhere.
You would be better served by greater flow than higher heat.
You would be better served by greater flow than higher heat.
I would say that higher flow with less heat is better. Even more so if you scrub first, how long does the pre spray stay hot for..a few seconds. I cleaned a carpet the other day with cold water just to see if I could. Scrubbed all my pre spray with a 175 and rinsed with 52* water (temp gauge on wand) and the carpet came out good. My wand was 15 flow
Now it wasn't a grease pit either though
Now it wasn't a grease pit either though
I need to get a lie detector to see what I'm getting at the wand. I may also pull my thermostat and see about bumping that up a bit. Like I said just about every job gets prescrubbed so it's definitely getting good dwell time and a good scrub plus lots of flushing going on. I'd just like to see a bit higher temps. Maybe it's just the cold weather. 10 degrees here but not nearly as cold as some of you guys and you still get lots of steam.
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Jim Martin
Supportive Member
Its a circle....and it all depends on what you want and/or feel does a better job....you will have to sacrifice something on way or another........
for me......I have the best of both worlds with my Hoss....I can get great heat and great flow......and perfect recovery......
but on my wand...I want good heat...
If I said it a hundred times....you are going to get much further with a well balanced set up then you will trying to make it do something that it just cant..............
for me......I have the best of both worlds with my Hoss....I can get great heat and great flow......and perfect recovery......
but on my wand...I want good heat...
If I said it a hundred times....you are going to get much further with a well balanced set up then you will trying to make it do something that it just cant..............
Ed Valentine
Member
Heat vs. Flow
High FLOW to help flush out the fibers & soil.
GREAT Extraction for recovery.
High FLOW to help flush out the fibers & soil.
GREAT Extraction for recovery.
Jim Martin
Supportive Member
don't know if its the least flow...but if your running it like mine...then it is the most controlled flow...
I do not know the flow rate...I am always adjusting it according to how dirty the carpet is and how bad traffic areas are........
Ah ha, Freds Google Foo is weak this mornin I say in my FogHorn LegHorn Voice : )
The whole THREAD about Boring Flow Techie stuff Thanks to Dan Gardner.
http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showthread.php?253056-Boring-Flow-Techie-Stuff&highlight=flow+rate
Jim Martin
Supportive Member
flow rate when.....when you have it wide open cleaning a bad traffic area..or when you have it turned down cleaning an area that is not so bad...
Not only are you controlling the flow...but you are controlling your heat...........when you turn the needle valve down and you are cleaning you are slowing down the flow and creating more heat....when you open it up for a bad area you are using more flow and your heat will drop....BUT..it is not going to drop and cool off...just somewhere around 10 to 20 degrees....which you will recover as soon as you dial it back down....controlled heat...controlled flow.........
Can't say that I really care what the flow is on my Hoss because I never keep it the same...but..I know that I am not losing much heat to make a huge difference and the heat stays right where I want it to...( no other rotary will give this to you )...and I can have all the flow and heat I want when I need it....
here is a town house I did today.....opened the valve wide open for the traffic areas....notice temp....
it jumped back up after I shut the valve down some on the cleaner areas...
wide open flow..........
kind of hard to do this type shot but if you look close the heat/steam is coming up out of the carpet.......not in the air...
wands are a entire different thing....your flow is what ever you have your jets set at and you get what you get...high flow..you are going to compromise your heat...from that point it is a personal preference...I like heat....so I keep mine jetted down........most like flow.....
hogjowl
Idiot™
Are those water spots on your instrument panel, or did you get over excited looking a it?
Jim Martin
Supportive Member
Its water...but take all the hidden elements into account....I am excited about what I am seeing.....only about 70 degrees out side and the extra large fan cooing it down....and I am still able to get those temps on a high flow rotary....she is running at top performance........
Loren Egland
Member
It might be interesting to test the flow rates of these rotary jet extractors at Mikeyfest. Use the same machine and hoses and bucket test.
Mikey P
Administrator
Bring a small kiddie pool to trap the water and we can do that.
