Hey! How about some advice regarding stain guard dilution

[Duane Oxley]

So, here's the situation. We have a new product. It's called "Fiber Helmet", a fluropolymer stain guard. We have a super- concentrate of it and can make it to dilute at anything from 1 to 3... all the way to 1 to 12.

So, I want to know how you guys apply it most often... diluted into a pump sprayer, or via HydroForce? If it's via HydroForce, what metering tip / ratio do you use?

I'm looking for a consensus, in order to determine the best strength to offer it at...

Also, I'm thinking of offering a scented version. What are your ideas on that?

Thanks.

Duane

 

[Fred Homan]

How about appying it with a Multi-sprayer? Should have more dilution like.....http://www.tri-plextech.com/home.html

 

[joey895]

The only way I'll apply any protector is with a battery or electric sprayer.

 

[Nate The Great]

Doing the most concentrated will benefit the cleaner.... More product and less water for shipping purposes.

What's the coverage range for a gallon of super concentrated?

We use a battery sprayer to apply also.

 

[Duane Oxley]

How about applying it with a Multi-sprayer?

That looks like the way I'd do it, sprayer- wise...

Any thoughts on concentration level in the bottle...?

Thanks.

 

[Duane Oxley]

Doing the most concentrated will benefit the cleaner.... More product and less water for shipping purposes.

What's the coverage range for a gallon of super concentrated?...

I'll have to get back to you on that one. I have one person with a lot of experience with new carpet and protectors doing the eval right now. (Maybe he'll speak up, but I respect his desire for privacy if he chooses not to...) That's one area we'll look at.

So far, tests of the product are seriously impressive.

They should be... It's the state of the art at the moment, in terms of stain guard technology.

 

[Fred Homan]

Duane, I'll be a beta tester for you when you get it all figured out.

 

[Duane Oxley]

Thanks.

The scented version is something we'll offer and see how it does. If it's well- received, we'll continue with it.

So, for concentration... What would a 1 to 12 newest- technology fluoropolymer price be?

I've looked at BridgePoint, Shield Industries and Pro's Choice and the pricing seems to be all over the map. It seems that they play games with the dilution vs. the coverage.

For instance, one is $24 a gallon and mixes 8 to 1, which sounds like a great deal... until you read where it says to apply 1 RTU gallon to 200 sq. ft.

Then another is $48 a gallon and mixes 1 to 2... but is supposed to cover 1.200 to 2,400 sq. ft., per RTU gallon.

 

[Willy P]

Rename it purple helmet........ :shock:

 

[hogjowl]

Do people seriously apply protector with in-line sprayers?

A hydraforce comes with a yellow tip ... and that is 1:9 ... right?

If you have a product that directs you to mix it at 1:8, how would you mix it in a hydraforce?

(Get another colored tip is one option, but how would you mix it for the yellow tip?)

Where's Forsythe?

 

[J Scott W]

Do people seriously apply protector with in-line sprayers?

A hydraforce comes with a yellow tip ... and that is 1:9 ... right?

If you have a product that directs you to mix it at 1:8, how would you mix it in a hydraforce?

(Get another colored tip is one option, but how would you mix it for the yellow tip?)

Where's Forsythe?

The HydroForce can dilute at 1 to 4 if you remove the yellow tip. The Hydroforce is calibrated to dilute at 8:1. Not to say that some don't actually dilute at 9:1 when they are used with different pressure, at different altitudes and so forth.

2 to 1 is the most water I would want to use.

Apply the product using more product and less water. The result should be faster drying times.

 

[hogjowl]

Did Scott even answer my freakin question?

Like I said ... where's Forsythe when you need him?

Did Mikey run him off?

Again ...

 

[J Scott W]

Did Scott even answer my freakin question?

Like I said ... where's Forsythe when you need him?

Let me try again for our Alabama members.

If you want to dilute a product 8:1 in a Hydroforce sprayer 1) Put the undiluted juice in the sprayer. 2) Spray.

 

[hogjowl]

I got that much, bonehead.

How do I mix to get 1:10 and 1:6 ... while using the yellow tip?

 

[J Scott W]

I got that much, bonehead.

How do I mix to get 1:10 and 1:6 ... while using the yellow tip?

Using a 5 qt. jug and an 8:1 dilution with a yellow tip, you will spray out just over 11 gallons by the time a full container has been emptied. ( 5 qts originally in container plus diluted with 8 times as much water)
5 qts + (5 qts X 8=40 qts water added) = 45 qts or 11 gallons plus 1 qt.

Figure out how much product you need for 1 gallon and multiply that by 11. Using your examples, 10:1 requires 12.8 ounces per gallon. Multiply that by 11 to get 140 ounces. The full container will hold 5 qts which is 160 ounces. So use 140 ounces of chemical and the difference, 20 ounces, of water.

10:1 is pretty close to 8:1 so not much water to add.

If your product needed 16:1 or 8 ounces per gallon, then 8 X 11 + 88 ounces of chemical and the rest water.


If you need anything more concentrated than 8:1 such as the 6:1 in your example, you need to change the tip or remove the tip. For this discussion, lets say you remove the tip.

The dilution without a tip is 4:1 You will spray out 25 qts or just over 6 gallons by the time the conteiner of chemical has been used up. So now, instead of putting in enough prespray (or whatever) for 11 gallons, just put in enough for the 6 gallons you will be applying.

6:1 is 21 ounces per gallon. 6 X 21 = 126 ounces. You can round this to 128 ounces or 1 gallon for convenience. Put in 1 gallon of product and the remaining quart gets filled with water.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I don't promote using the metering tips. They are a crutch, and they reduce metering accuracy. You could use one here, but why? You are going to have to mix anyway even if you use the yellow for 10:1.

Pull the metering tip and mix as follows:

For 6:1, mix 114 ounces of product, and fill the rest of the 5 quart container with water.
For 10:1, mix 73 ounces and fill the rest of the 5 quart container with water.



p.s. I guess I disagree with Scott's math. ( I hate when that happens, bause it either means I am an idiot/fool, or Scott is less than perfect, but I am still an ass. LOL)

In the last example you have there Scott, for 5 gallons of resultant mixed product, you will reduce the 5 quart container by 1 gallon (a 4:1 mix ratio). So for every 640 ounces of resultant product, you will have used 102 ounces of protector (128/1.25). The net dilution ratio would then be 102 ounces of protector per 640 ounces of the total. 640-102 = 538 (ounces of water) 538/102=5.27:1 Too concentrated, as you really wanted 6:1


Then again, I could be in error. If so, correct me.

 

[Nate The Great]

I don't promote using the metering tips. They are a crutch, and the reduce metering accuracy. You could use one here, but why? You are going to have to mix anyway even if you use the yellow for 10:1.

Pull the metering tip and mix as follows:

For 6:1, mix 114 ounces of product, and fill the rest of the 5 quart container with water.
For 10:1, mix 73 ounces and fill the rest of the 5 quart container with water.

With all do respect Scott W., Shawn's was easier for me to read. I do appreciate all the technical info though.

 

[hogjowl]

That's why I axed for Shawn.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I have the utmost respect for Scott, and I don't discount the possibility that I might be wrong on my calculations. I don't think I am. But if I am, I want to know. I need to know. I hope Scott will look at my reasoning.

 

[hogjowl]

Fake humility is so disgusting!

 

[dgardner]

Pull the metering tip and mix as follows:

For 6:1, mix 114 ounces of product, and fill the rest of the 5 quart container with water.
For 10:1, mix 73 ounces and fill the rest of the 5 quart container with water.



p.s. I guess I disagree with Scott's math. ( I hate when that happens, bause it either means I am an idiot/fool, or Scott is less than perfect, but I am still an ass. LOL)

If you don't want to have Shawn figure out each dilution for you, here's a short way to do it yourself (for no-tip 1:4 Hydroforce only):

Add one to your desired ratio - if you need 5 to 1, you use 6, if you need 9 to 1, use 10, etc.

Divide 800 by that number

Add that many ounces to the Hydroforce, and top off to 5 quarts with water. That's it! Let’s do Shawn's two examples to see if it works:

6 to 1 (use 7 in the formula)

800/7 = 114 ounces (114.28 to be exact)

10 to 1 (use 11 in the formula)

800/11 = 73 (72.72 to be exact)

And to Scott’s defense, he did round off twice in his explanation to make it easier to do in your head, so you would expect the resulting dilution to be off a little.

 

[J Scott W]

With all the fake humility I can summon, Yes, Shawn's math is correct.

I was trying more to show the method behind the calculation and rounding off to numebrs that did not require a calculator. For presprays, deodorizers or similar, my numbers would work fine. For diluting fiber protector, the greater accuracy of Shawn's numbers makes better sense.

This is what I see as the key - Know how much ready-to-use product is produced from one container at whatever dilution ratio you are using.! 4:1 with no metering tip means you get 25 qts or 6.25 gallons. Put in enough concentrated product to makes 6.25 gallons. Then fill the rest with water.

Oz also taught me a lesson here. I thought going through all the steps would make it easier to follow my reasoning. Shawn's approach of going more directly to the answer was better understood.

A man should never be ashamed to own up to having been wrong. It is just another way to say he is smarter today than yesterday.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Evidently getting smarter very often.
:-)