Honest opinion of HM CDS

[Jerry]

Those of you that run them, do you like them over a slide in? heat?, reliability? I like the space savings of them and I know alot of larger companys use the CDS or the Butler. Also if I found a owner/operator that had one for sale, what is considered average hours for a CDS or Butler?
Thanks for the replies, i am just weighing my options on which unit will be my next.
Jerry

 

[ruff]

I have had two Hydra Master Cds.
The machines are very dependable and hardly ever have a problem. I think Butler is the same (no personal experience with a butler though) These are very simple, dependable hardy machines.

The heat depends on the package you are getting (Salasa etc.) and you need to decide if you subscribe to the crazy, burn your butt off, HEAT camp or not. I don't. You will get more heat from some of the slide ins and definitely from the machines that utilize a propane heater.

However, my next machine is going to be a slide in.

With both machines my problems were not the machines but the Fords engines and also the transmissions. Yes, I maintained the engines religiously. My mechanic, and he is top notch, swears that none of these van's engines is designed to stay in idle that long. Also, if you go back about 8-10 years, you can tell what Ford (I don't know if it is Ford specific) thinks, as years ago they stopped approving power take off machines in their vans (voided the warranty.) They did allow it back later, but you wonder if it was more due to the large market, not just carpet cleaners, ambulances etc, than what was actually good for the engine and transmission.

The power take offs (like the CDS) are more employee proof and require less maintenance and mechanical know how, if you intend to service it yourself.

No matter what you decide, you can't go wrong with either a Cds (or a butler) or any well built slide in. In general, the less complicated they are the less can go wrong.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[sweendogg]

I'm not sure you can add much to the above post. Well Said Kolfer. He is right on every point. We purchased one because they came highly reccomended from several of our friends/ business associates who run multiple trucks up north of us. We purchased new though so I can't tell you on hours/used would be a good deal. We have the cds 4.8 in a 2008 GMC Savanna. The only thing I would have done differently would have been the salsa package as I know that alittle extra heat can be good on greasy restaurants and some heavily oiled carpets and also to support high flow a little better. If I'm on the truck when we purchase our next one it will need to either have an APO or larger freshwater/waste tanks. There are some days and large enough jobs that make it a real PIA to stop, return to shop and dump. With high flow extraction, we can usually clean upto about 1600 to 2400 sqft on our 120 G fresh and 110 waste tank depending on cleaning pressures. And if I'm using the wand or the RDM.

 

[TimP]

I've had mine for right at 3 years now and over 1200 hours on it. I've only broke one belt and have had zero problems with it. Just change oil and do maintenance.

It is my first truck mount and it does a good job. I can get a bunch of stuff in the back of mine with hose reels and fresh water tank. As far as heat goes I've bumped the HG's up just slightly and I get plenty of heat but one can always want more. Once the blower is hot it's hard to drop below 200 on a 12 flow greenhorn. While doing my schools in the hot summer and running all day the van can actually get very hot from running all day and I pop the hood but even so I doubt the temp drops below 220-230 going full speed ahead cleaning. Suction is probably on par with a 36 blower at full potential or over driven most likely because it's built to make heat and the blower is choked down, and you can only get so much energy through a clutch anyway. It also uses more fuel than HM says but that's to be understood but I believe it's still under 2gph.

I'd be willing to sell mine given the right price. I have about 21-22 payments left on it and as soon as I can I want to get a box van and a dual wand machine. For the employee it's probably a really good machine to put them on. They are reliable and easy to run and maintain.

I just believe I've out grown the van and the performance of the machine. I can't keep all the items in the van for all the services I offer.

 

[topnotchman]

Good posts above.

I started out with an old 1987 4.0 CDS. It never gave me any problems, and had the original blower, pump, waste tank, etc. I wanted to upgrade so I wanted to get the same thing since this was so reliable. I got a 4.8 CDS salsa. I've had it for a year now, and its living up to how the old one was. No problems with it, and keeps on going. Lot of space in the van for all the equipment, hoses, air movers, etc etc. The heat is great, and so is the vacuum power. if you are a guy like me that does 90% residential, average homes, then this machine is perfect. Its got the heat and vac to do those kind of jobs. If it looks like the machine has been taken care of, I dont think hours matter on it, because they go and go for a long time.

 

[ruff]

Just to re-emphasize David's very important point:
If you are going with high flow cleaning, you'd either need an automatic pump out which you'll need to use at the client's home every other job. Otherwise, get a LARGE waste tank. Because you'll thank David for that suggestion.

I never had a fresh water tank and short of once every three years that I come across a job I wish I did, I don't really need it.

However it seems like once you have it you never go back!
Ask David.

 

[Curtis Pennington]

We have one too...for 4 years, no major down time only a belt change..very satsified.

 

[The Great Oz]

Those of you that run them, do you like them over a slide in? heat?, reliability? I like the space savings of them and I know alot of larger companys use the CDS or the Butler. Also if I found a owner/operator that had one for sale, what is considered average hours for a CDS or Butler?
Thanks for the replies, i am just weighing my options on which unit will be my next.
Jerry

We buy them for reliability and longevity, the extra space is a nice bonus. Heat with the Salsa package is plenty for us. I don't know what average hours are, but either PTO should last at least twice as long as a typical slide-in. We used to sell ours at 100k miles and 10k hours, still working well.

If you like to drive around a lot more than you like to clean, buy a slide-in. They're cheaper to move when you wear out the truck.

With both machines my problems were not the machines but the Fords engines and also the transmissions. Yes, I maintained the engines religiously. My mechanic, and he is top notch, swears that none of these van's engines is designed to stay in idle that long. Also, if you go back about 8-10 years, you can tell what Ford (I don't know if it is Ford specific) thinks, as years ago they stopped approving power take off machines in their vans (voided the warranty.) They did allow it back later, but you wonder if it was more due to the large market, not just carpet cleaners, ambulances etc, than what was actually good for the engine and transmission.

Ford voided warranties for any gasoline powered van that idled a lot. PTOs just fell into that. The reason for this was they started using plastic fuel lines that would swell with the built-up heat of a truck idling with a catalytic converter. The lines would fail and spray fuel on the pavement and the underside of the truck. After many cases of in-city delivery vans and ambulances burning up they blamed the use rather than change the lines. I'm sure their lawyers told them loss of sales would cost less than admitting fault. Also, if you purchased extra fuel capacity, Ford would add a second tank instead of a larger tank like Dodge and GM did. When all engines went to fuel injection, the switch mechanism would often fail and send the returned fuel to the wrong tank. If that tank was full, gas overflowed onto the pavement. This happened to us several times, and our guys got accustomed to driving on one tank and switching to the other to clean.

The last straw for us was having two engines fail under warranty in 1991. The dealer mechanic told us it was a switch to lighweight pistons and connecting rods that was the problem. He said we were lucky it happened under warranty and pointed to a row of Mustangs and Thunderbirds that were there for the same problem (so it wasn't the PTO). He could fix the engines using the older, stronger components, but that required a heavier crankshaft as well and Ford would only pay for the lightweight stuff. We pulled units and dumped the whole fleet.

But, that was then, and they might make a great truck today. I'll leave it to someone else to find out.