hourly or comission

WillS

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Will
How do you pay your techs? Hourly or commission? We are currently paying hourly, but are running into the problem of a new tech (1 month) we hired still being pretty slow (compared to others) on completing jobs - costing us more in hours. We ran into an old employee of ours, who is now working for a different cleaning company, and told us, he is getting paid 30% commission on every job he does. He is on a van by himself with this new company, but they also do mobile detailing, we don't. We currently run 2 techs per vehicle. What's recommended or works best in your gracious opinion? Do you pay workers comp STILL on purely commissioned positions?
 
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Mark Saiger

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Mark Saiger
How do you pay your techs? Hourly or commission? We are currently paying hourly, but are running into the problem of a new tech (1 month) we hired still being pretty slow (compared to others) on completing jobs - costing us more in hours. We ran into an old employee of ours, who is now working for a different cleaning company, and told us, he is getting paid 30% commission on every job he does. He is on a van by himself with this new company, but they also do mobile detailing, we don't. We currently run 2 techs per vehicle. What's recommended or works best in your gracious opinion? Do you pay workers comp still on purely commissioned positions?

If you don't carry workers comp...your sub contractor would have to do so and supply you with the info and list you on their insurance policy....so more than likely, they will end up still falling under the category of an employee.

There is a section on the IRS website I believe that helps answer that question.

I know the Original Hapogian has a good system in place for lead tech and assistant on each van Ken Snow sent me once.

Maybe Brian can help out.

We pay per hour with some other benefits, but again we are mostly family....and we pay based on what can help them best at this time....

My son in law does have a company vehicle, paid cell phone plan, simple IRA plan, all uniforms paid for including Blue Shoes, uniforms, safety equipment as needed...some other benefits that do really add up but also benefit or company too
 

Mark Saiger

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Maybe a thought.....

If someone (or yourself) had some time to work with that tech for a few weeks and the jobsite and help him learn quicker procedures, he might be able to progress faster....

But if he is going to have a difficult time learning....maybe reduce his hours and eventually he will decide to leave and you find someone else.... :)

Keep in mind, if you reduce hours too far, he might be able to collect unemployment on you for the reduced hours....talk to your accountant or someone who knows your State laws on unemployment.
 

TomKing

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Tom
How do you pay your techs? Hourly or commission? We are currently paying hourly, but are running into the problem of a new tech (1 month) we hired still being pretty slow (compared to others) on completing jobs - costing us more in hours. We ran into an old employee of ours, who is now working for a different cleaning company, and told us, he is getting paid 30% commission on every job he does. He is on a van by himself with this new company, but they also do mobile detailing, we don't. We currently run 2 techs per vehicle. What's recommended or works best in your gracious opinion? Do you pay workers comp still on purely commissioned positions?

How do you pay your techs? We pay hourly with a commission structure.
Our FTE per employee is budgeted for our monthly goal. Our commission is set to encourage tech presenting all our services on each service visit.

Slow employees. This will always be a problem. Get used to it. No one is going to work as hard, long, care more, treat equipment correctly, better than you. Welcome to being an owner. It still gets me going when this happens also. Extra training might help but I think speed is some what who a guy is. He is ether fast or he isn't. I want accurate.

When an employee is slow I try to ask What's good about them? Do they show up on time? Do they have minimal call backs? Do they present our company well? Can they add on services to tickets? Are they honest? Are they fun to work with? Do other employees like them? If the answer is yes, yes, yes, you have a winner get over the fact he might not be a $1200 dollar a day production guy. I would take a good $650 - $850 guy every time. I need one now got any candidates? These guys don't get the raises. These are the guys you put on the half or overflow truck. These are the guys you get done by noon but got you $350 dollars extra for the day and made a client happy. These guys aren't that bad. They most time are ok with 25-35 hours. Just right for us small multi truckers.

IMHO the big bad production guys most times know it and are often a PITA. They are the guys who think they can run their own company and want to tell you how to run yours. They are often the guys that see tickets for $1000 -$2000 dollars and think they deserve more, even if you are reimbursing them well. They can be real drama queens.

Taking advice from a former employee? Why would you even think of doing this?

Comparing yourself to another company on what a former employee says?
The guy left you for what ever reason and he is still just an employee for the next company. This is not someone to put in your peer group for advice on how to run your company. Asking here or even better developing a close circle of business owners you know personally is where you should be getting advice. This is why I go to MF events and other industry meetings.

Do you pay work comp? Yes! in my state its the law and I would guess it is in yours also. It is not about how you reimburse your employees it is the fact that they are an employee. Some will say just 1099 everyone. This is also incorrect. If you are the majority of a persons income or work load they must be considered an employee. If they use your equipment, supplies and you direct their day to day they are your employee. Trying to make them subs is a real slippery slope.

How do you get any commercial work? If you bring employees on a job site without work comp and they are injured they then go after your client if you are not insured. This is a major issue. You can't skirt running your business legally or correctly be careful here. This is also a major liability for homeowners also.

Hope this helps.
 

Spurlington

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Before you hire your next victim .. pay attention to how he walks. A man that strolls gently as he walks will be ok with milking the clock. A man who walks like he's in a race to get nowhere will be your splash n dasher. I like the guy who moves without seeming like he's in a hurry to get somewhere.
 

Shane Deubell

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Dayuum Tom :headbang:, what he said.
Yes you need workers comp, disability and payroll taxes. If you want to sit at the big kids table, this is what it costs.

Over last 5 years we have had
Van/butler totaled
Tech pass away cancer
Cleaner illness permanent disability
Tech surgery off 4 months

$hit happens in the real world.

and whoever came up with the luck of the irish, not this one :dejection:
 

Shane Deubell

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Lead tech needs surgery and will be out 4 months. Need to hire/train replacement, unfortunately its my top guy that does the all the secure locations.
Takes month for background checks and paperwork alone.

Plus started another business, the days are going by pretty fast right now.
 

WillS

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Will
Thanks for the input so far. We do have workers comp, (I believe you need this for any amount of employees). Ours for 3 full time employees is a little over $280 a month. I was just curious if people who were paid on commission needed this or not.

The ex-employee that we ran into who said he is on commission works for a competitor who runs about 8 trucks. We only run 3 now. The ex-employee was fired with us, well asked to resign after his drug test came up for heroin. No go with us. Mugs, not drugs. 30% just seemed like a very high commission to me. He does get to keep the van he drives at home, which benefits him because he had no car when working for us. Some how he always made it to work on time though. Besides for the drugs, he was a really hard worker. We have the new employee (who is currently slower than everyone else) still in training. He just takes his sweet time getting the equipment out, filling up chemicals, etc. Worst part is I worked with him a few days ago and he wouldn't stop talking to the customer before he was even setup. We encourage talking to the customers, explaining our process etc. But not sitting there for 15 minutes doing this. Worst part - he was working with me. So this really pissed me off and I explained this to him. He said he wants to take his time so every job comes out perfect, doesn't want to rush like he said I was.

It's not rushing, its been doing this for a while now, and we understand how long certain jobs should take, and the other techs are quick, but shit. Maybe a week or 2 more for him and then we will only schedule him 1 day a week and go from there. Sucks - we haven't had to pay unemployment before and he hasn't been with us long enough anyways to make the claim worth wild.
 
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Lee Stockwell
Bane got us into the percentage game. However on one of the tours there I talked with several successful guys (Ron Falls in Ft Wayne IN comes to mind) who told me they didn't like their employees "in their books". Heard some stories that bore that out.

Have been hourly since, with bonuses from time to time.
 

clean image

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Carl Maddock
florida has 90 day probation period. you need to find out what yours is and make your decision before then.

If he is telling you "didn't want to rush like you were", I would be looking for a replacement, and let him go. Not a good sign.
 
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If I ha d another employee I would get them on commission ASAP.
They would not be poking around and be more like the owner to upsale furniture and tile.
 
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Shane Deubell

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He likes to do his job perfect AND is normal enough to hold a conversation for 15 minutes?
What's not to like.

End of the day it really doesnt matter what policy you create. Someone still has to manage it on a daily basis.

My starting point is what % do i want labor at?
How much wage and how much benefits.

Full time/part time

What is best policy for me

Really can make an argument for either.
 

mirf

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New jersey
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David Mirfin
I have a guy who is slow and it drives me nuts and more nuts. However, almost never a callback and when there is the client ALWAYS starts with *$#@# ( they always no his name) did a wonderful job however. Not the most mechanical person. well some other things that make him who he is that during an interview might be negatives.

Now the rest of the story:
Honest with money, equipment, time , clients personal property.
Always on time.
Called in once in two years. Asked if he could make it up.
If I need something day or night will say yes if he can.
Excellent with new employees
Great with senior citizens.
+++++

I would rather run 4 trucks with him than three with bonnie and clyde types
 

Mikey P

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coupon-5.png




David, with that coupon on your site how do you ever go beyond that price?


Don't you ever get those all day giant homes?
 
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yer work comp question can only be answered by your State work comp office. Yer in Nevada?, they'll tell you straight away. Just about every state in the union is inline with what defines an employee. Based on what you described I can tell you what Cal says but you gotta stick to Nevada law.
 
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mirf

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While I do get a few from the site most seem to hit site and call. Most of the large homes here have hardwood or tile on the first floor.
so we clean 4 -6 bedrooms large hall and sitting room maybe a set of stairs. That leaves protector, tile, hardwood, upholstery.
 
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Brian H

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Brian H
I am late to this thread...

We do pay only commission and yes everyone is covered by workman's comp because they are an employee. Just because you pay commission only doesn't make them a sub contractor. We had a couple of sub contractors working for us when I started with Hagopian 25 years ago. I decided to eliminate them because we didn't have enough control over them.

I still have crew specialists working slower then others, but it's okay because in the end it doesn't cost me any extra if it takes them an hour or two longer every day to finish their route. Everyone has their own pace and I am okay with that. I am more concerned at times that the crew moves too fast. Callbacks (we call them recleans) are done at no charge by the same crew and that helps to make sure they spend the time they need to do the job right.

As far as what Joe said, we do pay 1 1/2 commission on OT work. We call it Prime Time and I can email the plan to anyone that wants it. Just PM me with your email address.
 

The Great Oz

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seattle
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bryan
We used to provide installation services, and when we went to paying by the job instead of hourly, production rates tripled.

When we applied percentages to cleaning, the average cleaning rates doubled, and with no change in complaint or reservice rates. Our fleet is smaller than it would be if we were paying hourly, as are the other costs of having twice as many employees doing the same amount of work.

The flip side is that the techs often try to get out of doing anything that doens't put money in their pocket, like keeping their van clean, so you have that management trade-off.

Don't get caught up in what someone else pays as a percentage though. Guys making 35% at a splash n dash could be taking home minimum wage. Look at your price points and figure out what percentage of the job you can afford to pay and if it would be considered a wage worth sticking around for.
 

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