How often is you machine running just right?

[ACE]

An alert operator knows when there is a sudden change in performance but often performance is lost very slowly. For example, flow at the wand might be cut nearly in half before it dawns on you to descale or you might lose half of you vacuum before you take the time to clean out the inline filter.

So, what percentage of the time is your machine really running at optimal heat, pressure, CFM, Hg, and chemical injection?

 

[Zee]

I put a clean piglet in my inline mytee linthog before i start each job. If its a large job, I replace the nylon halfway thru the job. (collect them in a bag and wash them in the washing machine with my OP towel- they are brand new after that and go back to work.)

Water flow is alway measured and made sure the filter is clean on my wand. I descale around ever 300 hours so there is not that much built up anyways.

 

[Mike Draper]

always 100%. I inspect my truck and all fluid levels at least every other day. Nothing but soft water, never had a single clogged jet. My wand gets cleaned every week scrubbers get rinsed off after each job, RV gets rinsed off and wiped down after each job. My truck gets nothing but premium treatment all the time, its how I make my living. When something is not running just perfect, I can tell immediately.

 

[dealtimeman]

About 99.9% of the time it is running perfect but occasional missed cleaning of the lint filter or cleaning of the inline water filter/strainer is the only things I really notice.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

110% now that I no longer own a white magic or hydramaster. My Larry Cobb, Dynamaster is sooo simple and now comming up on two years and zero down time. I lost a lot time and money with the other units. I now know that smaller and simple is the best. This month I will be cleaning 30 yrs and now it,s even easier thanks to using the right equipment,just ask me jz.

 

[ACE]

So on average, you guys equipment is running perfect 99.9% to 110% of the time? When something isn’t running right I fix it. I find myself limping through jobs tell I can get a part allot more often than one job in a thousand.

 

[Mike Draper]

Out of the last 2400 hours, i had a radiator hose break on 1 job. On another job (an apartment) my water pump started to go out. I guess ive been fortunate.

 

[jerry ACC]

50% of the time.
Last year.
New rear seal on Briggs engine
New starting motor
new dump solenoid
New Fuse Pannel
New plunger on Fresh Tank
New Stater on the Briggs
All new guages
New temp sensors
New seals in Hydra Pump
Nickle Diming me to death, but a new unit is not in the near future.

 

[Art Kelley]

My Pro1200 is always at 100%. I rarely even think about it. Just clean the filter box, fill with gas and water. Every four or five years a hose will blow on the machine and gets replaced. I don't descale because I don't run emulsfier very often. Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives which operate much cooler.

 

[Doug Cox]

No problem that I have is anything that will keep me from working. I try to spot issues before they become a problem.

 

[GeneMiller]

i keep up on all the maintenance. when i replaced the radiator hoses i did miss the 2 3/8" hoses that i thought were for fuel or vacuum and one popped a leak. i taped it and finished the day. i have never descaled my machine , i've had the magnet since it was new which seems to work. the bypass has never clogged once. magic or coincidence who knows, don't care.


gene

 

[ACE]

My Pro1200 is always at 100%. I rarely even think about it. Just clean the filter box, fill with gas and water. Every four or five years a hose will blow on the machine and gets replaced. I don't descale because I don't run emulsfier very often. Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives which operate much cooler.

Running an emulsifier has nothing to do with decaling, especially if you have last step injection like on the Pro 1200. Bucket test your flow at the wand, descale and repeat 8) .

 

[Art Kelley]

My Pro1200 is always at 100%. I rarely even think about it. Just clean the filter box, fill with gas and water. Every four or five years a hose will blow on the machine and gets replaced. I don't descale because I don't run emulsfier very often. Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives which operate much cooler.

Running an emulsifier has nothing to do with decaling, especially if you have last step injection like on the Pro 1200. Bucket test your flow at the wand, descale and repeat 8) .

Last time I ran a bucket test with my Ti wand running 18 flow was last year, and it was a little over 2 gal/min and this was at 7000 hours. Should it be more? And yes, emulsfier does cake up your lines coming off the machine and if you run your solution line back into your fresh tank as I frequently do to heat the water or cool the machine and van engine (or both) then yes, the HX will cake up and need descaling.

 

[Scott Rogers]

Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives which operate much cooler.

Bullshit

 

[Art Kelley]

[quote="Art Kelley":qkvjq07l] Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives which operate much cooler.

Bullshit[/quote:qkvjq07l]

Bullshit that you don't do anything besides annual oil changes for the first 5000 hours on a direct drive or that they run cooler? Or bullshit you have to do another repair on your slide-in today. Or was that a sneeze?

 

[Scott Rogers]

Direct Drives and slide-ins have the same basic component , pumps, blowers, drive system and hoses.

The diferences are in the drive system and the additional engine on the slide in

A 25hp Kohler takes 2 qts oil every 100 hours

A 5.7l chevy takes 5-6 qts every 3k miles in pto mode (1700 rpm=35mph) thats every 85 hours = 3k miles.

edge Slide-in



Drive system,

Slide in belt drive or coupler once a year takes 30 minutes, cost 25 bucks

Direct drive Clutch Drive and/or belt on PTO 2-4 hours to replace every 2-3 years 25-50 if just belt 350-450 if Clutch, If shaft or bearings need replaced bend over.

Edge Slide in


Engine replacement

Slide in 1500-2000, takes 30 minutes to do

5.7 Chevy 3500-4500 truck down atleast 2 days.

Edge slide-in

There are many more examples, like issues with the Vans cooling system. Vans cooling systems are simply not designed to run 1700 rpm standing in place hours apon hour with the only air passing the radiator is from the fan.

And when a slide in brakes down you can still drive it to the parts store to fix it, Direct drive will require a tow.

Wreck a van with a slide in, much easier to move into a new van.

Not to mention most Direct drives under perform compared to most slide-ins, turning the blower slower and at lower lift to compensate for a weaker drive system (clutch). Run that blower @ 3400 rpm and 15hG and watch that direct drive shaft/clutch/belt shread.

 

[ACE]

Last time I ran a bucket test with my Ti wand running 18 flow was last year, and it was a little over 2 gal/min and this was at 7000 hours. Should it be more? And yes, emulsfier does cake up your lines coming off the machine and if you run your solution line back into your fresh tank as I frequently do to heat the water or cool the machine and van engine (or both) then yes, the HX will cake up and need descaling.

Bucket test it before and after and I bet you get more water after. I bet your water is hoter too. WM makes good HE so there really should be no need to cycle water to heat it up.

I have no idea why you would need to bleed off water to cool down with a direct drive.

 

[Desk Jockey]

95% of the time it's right. When it's not running at tip top we send over to the distributor for repairs.

 

[ACE]

95% of the time it's right. When it's not running at tip top we send over to the distributor for repairs.

I think 95% is a more realistic number.

 

[Art Kelley]

Direct Drives and slide-ins have the same basic component , pumps, blowers, drive system and hoses.

The diferences are in the drive system and the additional engine on the slide in
The difference is the lawn mower engine in the slide-in is working it's ass off and blasting 300 degree heat at the blower and pump and belts and hoses for hours on end.
A 25hp Kohler takes 2 qts oil every 100 hoursA 5.7l chevy takes 5-6 qts every 3k miles in pto mode (1700 rpm=35mph) thats every 85 hours = 3k miles.

edge Slide-in I change the oil once a month on my Express you have to change every 3 months plus monthly oil changes on the lawn mower engine. Edge DD.

Drive system,

Slide in belt drive or coupler once a year takes 30 minutes, cost 25 bucks

Direct drive Clutch Drive and/or belt on PTO 2-4 hours to replace every 2-3 years 25-50 if just belt 350-450 if Clutch, If shaft or bearings need replaced bend over.

Edge Slide in I had them change my blower belts at 7000 hours (after 6 years) and they charged me for 1/2 hour labor. (They didn't need changing.) Ive heard slide-in owners brag how they can change their blower belts in 45 minutes because they have to do so every 100 !!! hours. Edge DD
Engine replacement

Slide in 1500-2000, takes 30 minutes to do

5.7 Chevy 3500-4500 truck down atleast 2 days.

Edge slide-in It will be another ten years before I change the Express engine which is eight now with 80000 hours. Slide-ins are routinely change at about 4 or 5 years. Edge DDThere are many more examples, like issues with the Vans cooling system. Vans cooling systems are simply not designed to run 1700 rpm standing in place hours apon hour with the only air passing the radiator is from the fan. The engine of the van in a DD is cooled by the water used. And when a slide in brakes down you can still drive it to the parts store to fix it, Direct drive will require a tow. A DD doesn't normally "break down".
Wreck a van with a slide in, much easier to move into a new van. Still have to unbolt it and get a hoist and put a fuel tap in a the new vanNot to mention most Direct drives under perform compared to most slide-ins, turning the blower slower and at lower lift to compensate for a weaker drive system (clutch). Run that blower @ 3400 rpm and 15hG and watch that direct drive shaft/clutch/belt shread. My Pro1200 blower turns at about 3000 RPM when the van engine is at 1500 RPM. The Roots 56 is adjusted to 15 1/2-16 hg. I don't care about other DDs; they may underperform.

 

[Scott Rogers]

The difference is the lawn mower engine in the slide-in is working it's ass off and blasting 300 degree heat at the blower and pump and belts and hoses for hours on end.

Closer to the truth is Lawn mower engines are designed to work in their powerband which is perfectly suited to run a blower also designed to work at the same RPM. Slide-ins in general out perform DD's in Vac and heat with superior design and fewer limitations.





I change the oil once a month on my Express you have to change every 3 months plus monthly oil changes on the lawn mower engine. Edge DD.

Do the math, 6 qts of oil 12 times a year = 72 qts
slide-in 2 qts of oil 12 times a year =24 + 6 qts 4 times a year = 24 qts, total 48 qts a year.

your direct drive is using 24 more qts of oil a year.


Drive system,

I had them change my blower belts at 7000 hours (after 6 years) and they charged me for 1/2 hour labor. (They didn't need changing.) Ive heard slide-in owners brag how they can change their blower belts in 45 minutes because they have to do so every 100 !!! hours. Edge DD

I guess you havent seen all the post from guys with DD's with shaft and clutch and belt issues?

Getting 7k hours out of a set of belts on any TM is not average. But nice to see you dont do your scheduled maintenance on your machine, I bet White Magic recommends belt changes before 3k hours.

I change my slide-ins coupler once a year as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.



Engine replacement

It will be another ten years before I change the Express engine which is eight now with 80000 hours. Slide-ins are routinely change at about 4 or 5 years. Edge DD

Im sure this is a typo, if not you are a bold face liar, you dont have 80k hours on your truck. Maybe 80k miles?

You do realize 7k hours on your pto = 245k miles on your engine. Dont be so sure it will go another 10 yrs unless you park it for a good majority of that time.






The engine of the van in a DD is cooled by the water used.

Funny how I see many DD guys have to leave there hood open when cleaning so they dont over heat huh.

A DD doesn't normally "break down".

Neither do most slide ins


Still have to unbolt it and get a hoist and put a fuel tap in a the new van

Fuel tap yes, hoist not needed


My Pro1200 blower turns at about 3000 RPM when the van engine is at 1500 RPM. The Roots 56 is adjusted to 15 1/2-16 hg. I don't care about other DDs; they may underperform.

[/quote]

Now you are changing your statement from " Direct Drives" to "White Magic Direct Drives" White magic true used (out of business) their components closer to spec then other PTO machines "White Magic Engines and blowers are used to 70-80%" I wonder if you Pro1200 is choked down with undersized plumbing like the other ones I saw?

Point is mute though.

Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives which operate much cooler.

Not true, you just dont follow your recommended maintenance schedule.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

All machines are just machines. All need maintenance, and most run fine right up to the moment that they...DON'T.

I have a local friend that runs a WM direct drive. He has next to no clue about maintenance, which is a testiment to the toughness of the machine. He called me once in a panic because he had no heat. Was just low on engine coolant...he'd never checked it, and didn't understand the connection.

When it finally breaks something expensive he will just go out of business.

 

[Art Kelley]

[quote="Art Kelley":1kyanfky]


It will be another ten years before I change the Express engine which is eight now with 80000 hours. Slide-ins are routinely change at about 4 or 5 years. Edge DD

Im sure this is a typo, if not you are a bold face liar, you dont have 80k hours on your truck. Maybe 80k miles?

You do realize 7k hours on your pto = 245k miles on your engine. Dont be so sure it will go another 10 yrs unless you park it for a good majority of that time.


Not true, you just dont follow your recommended maintenance schedule.

[/quote:1kyanfky]
Sorry bro, I meant 80K miles. It has 8K hours. The point is the drive train is strong and so is the drive train on my last WM 1200 which is a 1987 with 20K hours on it but the body looks too ghetto anymore. I think that's one of the reasons WM went out of business; it took me 15 years to buy my second one.
And yes, I pop the hood much of the year when I work to let the heat out from the engine compartment although I could install a fan to cool it.
The 03 van looks and drives like new and I fully expect the engine to go 200K miles and 20K hours. It will not be parked except to get servicing at my local Goodyear auto center, which happens several times a year. They love me there.

 

[Scott Rogers]

[quote="Scott Rogers":2y3jqg20][quote="Art Kelley":2y3jqg20]


It will be another ten years before I change the Express engine which is eight now with 80000 hours. Slide-ins are routinely change at about 4 or 5 years. Edge DD

Im sure this is a typo, if not you are a bold face liar, you dont have 80k hours on your truck. Maybe 80k miles?

You do realize 7k hours on your pto = 245k miles on your engine. Dont be so sure it will go another 10 yrs unless you park it for a good majority of that time.


Not true, you just dont follow your recommended maintenance schedule.

[/quote:2y3jqg20]
Sorry bro, I meant 80K miles. It has 8K hours. The point is the drive train is strong and so is the drive train on my last WM 1200 which is a 1987 with 20K hours on it but the body looks too ghetto anymore. I think that's one of the reasons WM went out of business; it took me 15 years to buy my second one.
And yes, I pop the hood much of the year when I work to let the heat out from the engine compartment although I could install a fan to cool it.
The 03 van looks and drives like new and I fully expect the engine to go 200K miles and 20K hours. It will not be parked except to get servicing at my local Goodyear auto center, which happens several times a year. They love me there.[/quote:2y3jqg20]


I always liked the White Magic 56 PTO's. It is a shame they went out of business.

I still disagree with "Slide-ins are much higher maintenance than direct drives" and Lee is right "All machines are just machines. All need maintenance" And I will also add there are lemons out there by every manufacturer.