HydraMaster's new TM
- Thread starter steve frasier
- Start date
Kevin B
Member
Welcome to Mikey's Board. This information has been known a while now.
Knowing HM, it will be a HOT machine, lightweight, and on a small footprint.http://www.hydramaster.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=122
Knowing HM, it will be a HOT machine, lightweight, and on a small footprint.http://www.hydramaster.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=122
T
The Magician
Guest
Thanks for the tip. Just learning about it now.
I wouldn't get too excited about their Titan. They say they are in the process of building the first run of beta units at a reduced rate. If you are still thinking about one, I would make sure I lived close by one of their dealers that has the time and techs and parts to get you back on the road quick.
I live a few miles from Hydramaster. I wanted to stay a customer of theirs, but I wanted better than they were willing to build. I talked to different people there for many years, and I can understand their response about expense of R & D, and I can appreciate that they have found where they do best, but don't be telling me as they do in print "The world's best truckmounted carpet cleaning equipment exclusively from HydraMaster".
Now the Titan is their big boy, with a Tuthill 5009 and a 100 gal waste tank, excuse me for laughing, and they are saying, "In response to those who have asked for a truly high-performance truckmount that will do anything, do it better and be reliable and easy to maintain, we give you this..."
I know that Hydramaster knows what the other manufacturers are building, they all have their "spy's". They all hire these people that will come up with the right thing to say that will sell.
To you at HydraMaster, and I'm sure this will get to you, you have too little and your way to late. As I'm sure you know, I bought a Vortex. Yes, Vortex is guilty of yapping, but they are part of the Big Boy's Club, and TITAN, you're not.
Pat
P.S. Dear Hydramaster, If you really want to live up to what you print, we would be glad to show you and even give you hands on "real world performance". We will even come over to Mukilteo and let you clean on your own carpet. It has been my wish that all the businesses in my area be the very best. I really want to be proud of you and what you have to say and I sincerely feel that. Call me 425-303-8294.
I live a few miles from Hydramaster. I wanted to stay a customer of theirs, but I wanted better than they were willing to build. I talked to different people there for many years, and I can understand their response about expense of R & D, and I can appreciate that they have found where they do best, but don't be telling me as they do in print "The world's best truckmounted carpet cleaning equipment exclusively from HydraMaster".
Now the Titan is their big boy, with a Tuthill 5009 and a 100 gal waste tank, excuse me for laughing, and they are saying, "In response to those who have asked for a truly high-performance truckmount that will do anything, do it better and be reliable and easy to maintain, we give you this..."
I know that Hydramaster knows what the other manufacturers are building, they all have their "spy's". They all hire these people that will come up with the right thing to say that will sell.
To you at HydraMaster, and I'm sure this will get to you, you have too little and your way to late. As I'm sure you know, I bought a Vortex. Yes, Vortex is guilty of yapping, but they are part of the Big Boy's Club, and TITAN, you're not.
Pat
P.S. Dear Hydramaster, If you really want to live up to what you print, we would be glad to show you and even give you hands on "real world performance". We will even come over to Mukilteo and let you clean on your own carpet. It has been my wish that all the businesses in my area be the very best. I really want to be proud of you and what you have to say and I sincerely feel that. Call me 425-303-8294.
John Watson
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 2,885
Picky picky picky, Boy, some one put a nickel in your ear. Patrick, I haven't heard you rant like this in ages.. Now calm down, I'm the one that gets excited, Just mellow out or they might be looking for a white jacket with straps for you. I know you had close connections with them, and you had your share of equipment problems. Glad you and Bennie are just zooming..
Jim Nazarian
Member
I heard that there are 13 units being field tested around the country.
G
Guest
Guest
They should send one to me!
TimP
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,055
If they can keep 230+ for 3 gpm flow and 15 hg's or higher for vac then I think they will have a hit. Anything less is just another knock off. They also need to get with it and have 2.5" vac ports standard.
Becker
Member
T
The Magician
Guest
Hydramaster has been slow to change. Talked to many people from Hm. They don't like to listen to our ideas or suggestions. Yeah,, Jon, etc.? Just happy selling Boxxers and CDS. Got way behind on the big machines. Very slow releasing the new Hi-Dry Upl. tool.
Hey picky remember HM was one of the first for the big machines. The Maxx 550. The machine was way ahead of times. It didn't sell well because of cost and many cc were using 2 cyl engines and were worried about $$.
Now Hydramaster its time to move ahead. Remember the best days when MIKE PALMER was the CHIEF. We talked and Mike listened.
Hey picky remember HM was one of the first for the big machines. The Maxx 550. The machine was way ahead of times. It didn't sell well because of cost and many cc were using 2 cyl engines and were worried about $$.
Now Hydramaster its time to move ahead. Remember the best days when MIKE PALMER was the CHIEF. We talked and Mike listened.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hmmmm....
I've never looked at HydraMaster's performance comparison charts before, but now that I have, I find some interesting "things". Although they state the input temp and ambient temp and 100 ft. of hose (presumably 1/4")...
The low end systems are evaluated / spec'd with a #4 jet at 300 PSI
The mid to high range systems are evaluated / spec'd with a #6 jet at 300 PSI.
Why not just state the GPM...?
300 PSI via a 1/4" hose will be in the area of 200 at the end of that hose. So, the GPM is pretty low, regardless of the system being described.
Through a #4 jet, it's around 1 GPM, if memory serves.
Through a #6, it's around 1.2, from what I recall at the moment.
So what's the flow rate at specified temperature for the Titan...?
I've never looked at HydraMaster's performance comparison charts before, but now that I have, I find some interesting "things". Although they state the input temp and ambient temp and 100 ft. of hose (presumably 1/4")...
The low end systems are evaluated / spec'd with a #4 jet at 300 PSI
The mid to high range systems are evaluated / spec'd with a #6 jet at 300 PSI.
Why not just state the GPM...?
300 PSI via a 1/4" hose will be in the area of 200 at the end of that hose. So, the GPM is pretty low, regardless of the system being described.
Through a #4 jet, it's around 1 GPM, if memory serves.
Through a #6, it's around 1.2, from what I recall at the moment.
So what's the flow rate at specified temperature for the Titan...?
T
The Magician
Guest
Duane,more math for you. #9 jet @ 400lbs= gpm? Ok now using 500lbs gph Thanks
Are you building any big machines yet?
Are you building any big machines yet?
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Jimmy...
Yes. I'm currently working on the "Nemesis" series of new heat exchange systems. Running a bit behind schedule with it, but I'd rather do it right the first time than get in a rush and have to back up as a result...
Yes. I'm currently working on the "Nemesis" series of new heat exchange systems. Running a bit behind schedule with it, but I'd rather do it right the first time than get in a rush and have to back up as a result...
Hi Becker,
You need to ask your questions to John Watson, he is the one that mentioned "concerns". In my post about the Titan, my feelings about HydraMaster and the other manufactures is they speak with forked tongue. It seemed like all the people posting after mine didn't get my main thought, thanks to my buddy Zoomin John.
How many times have you read their ads that they are the Worlds this or that. If a man's word is no good, what's left? Hydramaster says about the Titan, "In response to those who have asked for a truly high performance truckmount that will do anything, do it better and yet be reliable and easy to maintain, we give you this." My thinking is a machine for those that ask for a truly high performance that will do anything and do it better will not be looking at a machine with a 5009 blower and an 100 gallon waste tank. I guess I'm off track, because nobody agreed.
I didn't say anything about "concerns" with HydraMaster machines. Yes, I have a 2001 CDS/Salsa. I also had a 1994 CDS that I sold when I bought the 2001.
I would like to go on record right now that HydraMaster & I were tight for many years. If I had a problem, I could bring it right to the plant and they would pull somebody off what they were doing and get me back on the road. You ever feel like you almost own the place the way you are treated? I knew alot of them by first name, especially the ones that helped me out, not the ones that had their special parking place close to the front door. Hell, those guys don't matter anyway, they just screw things up.
So the Titan might be a great machine, and I really hope it is, because I want the businesses in my area to be the very best. I'm just tired of trying to get the facts without hiring a detective. And it's not just HydraMaster, they all do it.
To end this on a positive thought, to all of you manufactures out there in La La land........KMA........Just kidding. I always wanted to say that. Man that feels good.....KMA.....KMA.......And Happy New Year!!!
Pat
You need to ask your questions to John Watson, he is the one that mentioned "concerns". In my post about the Titan, my feelings about HydraMaster and the other manufactures is they speak with forked tongue. It seemed like all the people posting after mine didn't get my main thought, thanks to my buddy Zoomin John.
How many times have you read their ads that they are the Worlds this or that. If a man's word is no good, what's left? Hydramaster says about the Titan, "In response to those who have asked for a truly high performance truckmount that will do anything, do it better and yet be reliable and easy to maintain, we give you this." My thinking is a machine for those that ask for a truly high performance that will do anything and do it better will not be looking at a machine with a 5009 blower and an 100 gallon waste tank. I guess I'm off track, because nobody agreed.
I didn't say anything about "concerns" with HydraMaster machines. Yes, I have a 2001 CDS/Salsa. I also had a 1994 CDS that I sold when I bought the 2001.
I would like to go on record right now that HydraMaster & I were tight for many years. If I had a problem, I could bring it right to the plant and they would pull somebody off what they were doing and get me back on the road. You ever feel like you almost own the place the way you are treated? I knew alot of them by first name, especially the ones that helped me out, not the ones that had their special parking place close to the front door. Hell, those guys don't matter anyway, they just screw things up.
So the Titan might be a great machine, and I really hope it is, because I want the businesses in my area to be the very best. I'm just tired of trying to get the facts without hiring a detective. And it's not just HydraMaster, they all do it.
To end this on a positive thought, to all of you manufactures out there in La La land........KMA........Just kidding. I always wanted to say that. Man that feels good.....KMA.....KMA.......And Happy New Year!!!
Pat
Kevin B
Member
Duane;
I think if you look at HM's spec sheets, they compare their machines to other machines from other large vendors.
Generally, they will outdo the other large manufacturers in heat. Not to knock you or your company, but they are not really competing with you. I am sure you can build a hotter, more powerful machine for less, but what type of support will I have. When it comes right down to time, I enjoy taking my machine in and getting in the door right away.
Hydramaster may be falling behind on the "big machine" world of cleaning, but they have been a dominate leader in the mid to small truckmount class and that is where the majority of machines purchased are classified. Now, that is changing as technology is changing. The 550 was not really ahead of its time, the Big Red was. #5 blowers have been out for a while. Personally, if the TITAN is what its supposed to be, I will be highly interested in getting a new setup.
My max 470 I ran 12 flow at 550 PSI and it never dips off of 250. When I bumped up to 16, it will drop down to 210 when I am working it hard.
I think if you look at HM's spec sheets, they compare their machines to other machines from other large vendors.
Generally, they will outdo the other large manufacturers in heat. Not to knock you or your company, but they are not really competing with you. I am sure you can build a hotter, more powerful machine for less, but what type of support will I have. When it comes right down to time, I enjoy taking my machine in and getting in the door right away.
Hydramaster may be falling behind on the "big machine" world of cleaning, but they have been a dominate leader in the mid to small truckmount class and that is where the majority of machines purchased are classified. Now, that is changing as technology is changing. The 550 was not really ahead of its time, the Big Red was. #5 blowers have been out for a while. Personally, if the TITAN is what its supposed to be, I will be highly interested in getting a new setup.
My max 470 I ran 12 flow at 550 PSI and it never dips off of 250. When I bumped up to 16, it will drop down to 210 when I am working it hard.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hi, Kevin...
I know what the graphs were showing. They're clearly labeled that they're "comparisons".
Regarding my point, it's just that they chose a flow rate that's simply not realistic. They chose that particular point... there is no industry standard for testing. (My own standard is: measured ATW, at 600 PSI, through a #6 jet or equivalent, with the wand held open.)
My observations had nothing, in terms of making some kind of comparison between systems I make and have made, and theirs. If you re-read my initial post, you'll find nothing like that there...
I've always been a stickler for being specific and realistic when quoting temperature in particular. I've been preaching the idea of heat loss and temperature differences between the machine ("ATM", a phrase and acronym that I coined when I first started posting on the CleanFax forum back in 1998 or so) and the wand ("ATW") for years now.
I've also been preaching the concept of "flow rate". When I first started advertising back in the 1990's, my company and Vortex were the only two that mentioned actual flow rate (1.5 GPM) spec's in our ads.
My statement stands: If a claim is made regarding temperature, without mentioning flow rate at the same time, the claim is useless.
Hydramaster, in their comparison, did do something that I applaud... They used a given input temperature... But they left out a crucial elemen- Flow Rate. They gave you the numbers that, if you knew how to mesh them, would give you a flow rate, but not the flow rate itself. My question was, "Why not?" It's not a "knock" of Hydramaster... just an (to me anyway...) obvious question.
I didn't make an attempt, as I said, to compare my own systems to theirs. It wasn't appropriate to this thread, and, in reality (since you brought it up...), there is no comparison. They are a great company, they make quality systems, but any flow fired- system I build exceeds their heat output ability by a very wide margin.
But it wasn't my intention to get into that in replying to this thread...
And BTW... regarding support: It's definitely been something to work on from my end. With no distributor network, it all has, historically, fallen back on yours truly. Granted, I can walk owners through almost anything on the phone, but it's just not the same thing as being near you, geographically, and accessible as a result.
This coming year, we'll be changing that...
I know what the graphs were showing. They're clearly labeled that they're "comparisons".
Regarding my point, it's just that they chose a flow rate that's simply not realistic. They chose that particular point... there is no industry standard for testing. (My own standard is: measured ATW, at 600 PSI, through a #6 jet or equivalent, with the wand held open.)
My observations had nothing, in terms of making some kind of comparison between systems I make and have made, and theirs. If you re-read my initial post, you'll find nothing like that there...
I've always been a stickler for being specific and realistic when quoting temperature in particular. I've been preaching the idea of heat loss and temperature differences between the machine ("ATM", a phrase and acronym that I coined when I first started posting on the CleanFax forum back in 1998 or so) and the wand ("ATW") for years now.
I've also been preaching the concept of "flow rate". When I first started advertising back in the 1990's, my company and Vortex were the only two that mentioned actual flow rate (1.5 GPM) spec's in our ads.
My statement stands: If a claim is made regarding temperature, without mentioning flow rate at the same time, the claim is useless.
Hydramaster, in their comparison, did do something that I applaud... They used a given input temperature... But they left out a crucial elemen- Flow Rate. They gave you the numbers that, if you knew how to mesh them, would give you a flow rate, but not the flow rate itself. My question was, "Why not?" It's not a "knock" of Hydramaster... just an (to me anyway...) obvious question.
I didn't make an attempt, as I said, to compare my own systems to theirs. It wasn't appropriate to this thread, and, in reality (since you brought it up...), there is no comparison. They are a great company, they make quality systems, but any flow fired- system I build exceeds their heat output ability by a very wide margin.
But it wasn't my intention to get into that in replying to this thread...
And BTW... regarding support: It's definitely been something to work on from my end. With no distributor network, it all has, historically, fallen back on yours truly. Granted, I can walk owners through almost anything on the phone, but it's just not the same thing as being near you, geographically, and accessible as a result.
This coming year, we'll be changing that...
My personal opinion about hm is: if there is ever an electrical problem you might need to find an engineer of some sort to figure it out lol plus I've never actually been a fan of heat exchangers anyway. So as for 270 degree heat....a manufacturer bragging about a spiked temp....isn't as funny as an owner whining about the inconsistent heat that they actually do get lmao. And when considering which machine to promote....I always ask my self what would jesus do..... and Im still waiting for jesus to get back to me on that.
T
The Magician
Guest
Duane HM did make some hot direct fired propane units. I have one. They have stopped making them years ago. SW makes a direct fire kero unit. You didn't answer my Q on flow above.
Kevin the 550 was ahead of its time for HM. Hm first big eng.& blower and not comparing it to the Big Red diesel or a few of the #5 blowers. It did not sell well because of the price. Most CC were using the popular cheaper 2 cyl. engines. Hm should have stayed with the Maxx 550 even tho it was ahead of their time and not selling well.
Kevin the 550 was ahead of its time for HM. Hm first big eng.& blower and not comparing it to the Big Red diesel or a few of the #5 blowers. It did not sell well because of the price. Most CC were using the popular cheaper 2 cyl. engines. Hm should have stayed with the Maxx 550 even tho it was ahead of their time and not selling well.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Jimmy...
I remember the old HydraMasters... and TurboTech's. (TurboTech was a knock-off of HydraMaster... a carbon copy, basically, that the company I worked for back in the 1980's sold.)
A #9 jet at 500 PSI is 3.18 GPM. At 400, I'd guess it's about 3 GPM (At 750, it's 3.9)
---> It's important to be sure that when you're evaluating jet flow and using a chart, etc., that you have the actual pressure ATJ (at the jet) measured. It's NOT the same as the pressure at the machine... especially if you're using 1/4" hose.
I remember the old HydraMasters... and TurboTech's. (TurboTech was a knock-off of HydraMaster... a carbon copy, basically, that the company I worked for back in the 1980's sold.)
A #9 jet at 500 PSI is 3.18 GPM. At 400, I'd guess it's about 3 GPM (At 750, it's 3.9)
---> It's important to be sure that when you're evaluating jet flow and using a chart, etc., that you have the actual pressure ATJ (at the jet) measured. It's NOT the same as the pressure at the machine... especially if you're using 1/4" hose.
Duane....before someone misinterprets the data "A #9 jet at 500 PSI is 3.18 GPM" be sure to point out in real world application it will actually be less flow at the wand, likely much less than 3 gal per min!
If most machines could hold 230 at a final 1.75 gpm (per wand) their owners would be jumping for joy. .... but they don't.
Let's see if the Nemesis challenges this status quo.
If most machines could hold 230 at a final 1.75 gpm (per wand) their owners would be jumping for joy. .... but they don't.
Let's see if the Nemesis challenges this status quo.
Fred Homan
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,142
Let's see some pics/specs about this Nemesis....
Fred
Fred
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Greenie...
That's what I meant by the following:
---> It's important to be sure that when you're evaluating jet flow and using a chart, etc., that you have the actual pressure ATJ (at the jet) measured. It's NOT the same as the pressure at the machine... especially if you're using 1/4" hose.
That's what I meant by the following:
---> It's important to be sure that when you're evaluating jet flow and using a chart, etc., that you have the actual pressure ATJ (at the jet) measured. It's NOT the same as the pressure at the machine... especially if you're using 1/4" hose.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Fred...
I'll do it in another thread. I don't want to hijack this one...
Thanks...
I'll do it in another thread. I don't want to hijack this one...
Thanks...
