I think I am in a chemical trap.Any suggestions?

doug450

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OK, I am new to carpet cleaning,I got a start up package from Rotovac like 3 months ago.
I have the rotovac powerwand and a 100 psi mytee extactor with no heat,probly a mistake but o well,I got the chem package from Rotovac also.
I see so many chemicals and samples on here about all these great chemicals and I keep wanting to try them all and I do try some of them,I think I am realizing that I need to pick a couple chems and stick with them until there gone or at least give my self a chance to see how they actually work,its like I think I am going to run into some magical chemical,I might but I dont think it will be with my set up especially with no heat,I have a trkmount that I am working on but I am doing it between working at my full time job and my little carpet cleaning jobs I am getting here and there.

What do you guys think? Have you ever caught your self trying to find a magical chem and before using one product enough times to see if it works good or not you think about trying trying a different one.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,Doug
 

SRI Cleaning

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doug i was doing the same thing with chems. i have only now started to settle into just a handful of chems and spotters that i know work very well. There are a few I want to try, but i think i am going to take my time, so that i can be familiar with what i am using, before trying anything else.
 

Dolly Llama

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I find the best way to evaluate pre-spray efficacy is by side by tests in rat holes

If you don't do it that way, it's takes much longer to evaluate a chem's efficacy.

It takes much more than a "sample" to determine if it's any good if you're not doing side by side comparisons on rat holes.


..l.T.A.
 

hogjowl

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Judson's stuff is good, and so in Duane Oxley's. Both post here.

You can get with either of them if you don't have a local supplier.

Use what you already have bought and then have your local give you a gallon of what they recommend.
 

XTREME1

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I am using ultrapac (sometimes boosted with orange magic) and rinsed with all-fiber and it is by far the best combo I have tried. I did just decide to switch with all the recommendations for JJ 02 system. So I bought a few cases of that and some hot sauce. When it gets here I will give my homest opinion. It is much easier when you get all your chems down and know what to use when.

Talk to guys like Odin, Mikey, Chavez, Rex, sutley, ladwig and many more and pick their brains. A lot of these guys are soooo old they didn't even have wheels when they started skip mikey he works on commission
 

Rex Tyus

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It is real easy to get all buried in more presprays and rinses than you know what to do with.

I will be doing a more detailed review on Judson juice in a thread later. Since it was mentioned I will make a brief comment on it now. JJ is a very versatile system. I like it very much. Very convenient and cost effective for a liquid.

I agree with the admiral. Use what you have on hand before you buy more.

Side by side comparisons in the dirtiest places (as Larry said) are the best way to evaluate. Pretty much anything will make lightly soiled carpet look clean.
 

Ron Werner

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about every 6 mths I would come across something that claimed to be "the best". So I'd try it, and maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
After a while I found a few that worked very predictably.

Another factor for me was health/green. First priority was split between my health (if its safe for me its safe for my clients) and its ability to clean. Then cost per use came into play. I was using a ZEP prrespray but it had butyl in it so I started looking for something healthier. Found some local stuff, but it didn't clean that great. Went to Powdered Power, great clean and safer. Then Judson Juice, the O2 System. Cleaned just as well as PP, quite safe to use, and better concentration so a lower cost per use.

Works well as a car wash to :wink:
 

Spurling

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I am forever trying new products.. The Judson o2 system so far has been the best for me.. I end up with alot of left over detergents from liking something to ordering a bunch of it.. Ive taken a batch of detergents to our local distributor and traded for other stuff with a 50% loss.. other stuff I use up on commercial accounts just to get rid of it..

Judson o2 system works great and the hot sauce is a great booster.. I need to call and see if he could make some pre-spray with out the orange for some of my scent sensitive clients.. unless it reduces the power of the pre-spray significantly..

Anyone who hasn't tried it, I bet you'll love the stuff..
 

Dolly Llama

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Ron, I think JJ is good stuff
but I'm curious, what makes d'limonene and peroxide "safe"?

doesn't peroxide "kill" things?

ever get peroxide on your skin and see what happens?
I believe that white stuff you see on you skin is the top layer of skin that was DESTROYED

ever wonder what it does to the inside of lungs???

and it won't be long before citrus turpenes (d'limonene) will be labeled an "eeeviil" cancer causing chem just like butyls

watch and see



..L.T.A.
 

joey895

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As far as pre-spray goes I'm on my second 45lb container of Powermax. It works good and I don't believe you can get much more cost effective. I tried JJ and thought it was good but I prefer the powermax.

As to your porty with no heat. With that rotovac you don't need heat and you wouldn't get much heat with any heater that could be added to that porty anyway.
 

Fon Johnson

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I tried this and that, then I met Duane Oxley. Now everything (for the most part) is his or Pro's Choice. Duane's cleaners, and Pro's Choice spotters.
 

KevinL

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I was wondering Doug if you wanted to go full time with cc and quit the job? If you wanna go pro, get the tm running. jmo
 
R

R W

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Doug......do you leave your porty in the van, or roll it in the house? When I started with a porty, I quickly added a "Little Giant" propane heater between the porty and the wand. It made a hell of a difference. Even Northern Tool has a portable water heater (kero) that will get you some hot ass water! It runs about $1200.


northerntool.com

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... allpartial
 

truckmount girl

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meAt said:
I find the best way to evaluate pre-spray efficacy is by side by tests in rat holes

If you don't do it that way, it's takes much longer to evaluate a chem's efficacy.

It takes much more than a "sample" to determine if it's any good if you're not doing side by side comparisons on rat holes.


..l.T.A.

I agree with Larry here, with one notable exception; I always try new chems on my house and observe resoiling over the next couple months. Some pre-sprays that work great on rat nasties will resoil terribly within two weeks.

Take care,
Lisa
 

TimP

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The only reason I haven't tried Cobbs powermax is due to the ph being too high for stain resistant carpet, 10.8 I believe. And if I'm gonna be up above 10 I might as well use power burst/power break. As far as chemicals go I haven't tried a whole bunch but I think I'm going to be a user of judson O2 for residential and power break for nasty/commercial. I am interested in judson powder coming out but I hope it dissolves better than the booster for the O2 system.
 

Rex Tyus

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Some pre-sprays that work great on rat nasties will resoil terribly within two weeks.

Take care,
Lisa

Yea but if is a true rat nasty chances are it is a rental and the new tenants will get blamed for the dirt anyway. :wink:
 

Ron Werner

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meAt said:
Ron, I think JJ is good stuff
but I'm curious, what makes d'limonene and peroxide "safe"?

doesn't peroxide "kill" things?

ever get peroxide on your skin and see what happens?
I believe that white stuff you see on you skin is the top layer of skin that was DESTROYED

ever wonder what it does to the inside of lungs???

and it won't be long before citrus turpenes (d'limonene) will be labeled an "eeeviil" cancer causing chem just like butyls

watch and see



..L.T.A.


the peroxide is basically borax. Last I knew its "relatively" safe.

The d'limonene is one step down from food grade, Les says you can drink the stuff.

What do I know, talk to Les about it.

I did wash my hands with O2 today, didn't really dry them up. I have Orangel from ZEP, now that stuff I don't want on my hands. When comparing oranges to oranges, there can still be a difference.

The old O2 booster was a brute to dissolve. The new dry powder version dissolves almost immediately.
 

Larry Cobb

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I agree with Larry on testing presprays "side-by-side"...

One other factor to be evaluated is the cost of the product.

We like to test:

Dollar-for-Dollar AND Side-by-Side

That way you are evaluating what each dollar of product delivers.


Joey; thanks for the report on the DC PowerMax comparison.


Tim; the high pH is due to the oxidizer portion in our PowerMax.

Everybody using an oxidizer should be at a pH of >10 for the oxidizer to be most active. Most cleaners on this board are using oxidizers to improve the cleaning performance.

A water rinse will easily bring down the pH to under 10, which will leave the carpet at the proper pH.

Larry Cobb

P.S. The mill limitation of pH under 10 was due to yellowing problems on the first versions of "stainresist" compounds. That problem was corrected 10 years ago, but the mills never dropped the pH spec.
 

XTREME1

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dollar for dollar I don't think is an issue if you break down your chem cost per job. I always want what I think is the best. Why bother with the cost? It is peanuts for almost any prespray and rinse per job. Just find something that works great all around and screw the price.
 

Larry Cobb

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Greg;

I am not saying you should use less prespray on the cleaning job.

Use whatever amount is required to get the level of cleaning you want to deliver.

Larry
 

XTREME1

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What is the cheapest priced prespray? What is the most expensive?
 

steve r

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P.S. The mill limitation of pH under 10 was due to yellowing problems on the first versions of "stainresist" compounds. That problem was corrected 10 years ago, but the mills never dropped the pH spec.



larry,
i thought the high ph or 10 or over stripped the built in protector from the dye site allowing the stain to penetrate the fiber.at least that was my understanding, am i wrong or is this just another myth?
 

Larry Cobb

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Steve;

The pH 10 limitation was from DuPont, when "Stainresist" was first released.

The SR was a big hit and several producers had to supply the product to the mills. A few of these suppliers had SR compounds that would yellow with high pH cleaners.

Some yellowed and some did not. I remember testing some of them that showed no trace of yellowing even at a pH of 12. Others yellowed with a pH of 9.

Within a year or two, everybody had cured the yellowing problem, but the pH requirement was kept in place.

Fluorochemicals are still quite effective at a pH of 10-11.

Rinsing the detergent residue from the carpet fiber, is what good protection application requires.

Larry Cobb
 

Jim Martin

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Powermax is a good pre spray...........I use it almost all the time.........

don't be scared of the ph game.......just make sure you have a good rinse.............
 

TimP

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I'm not too scared of the ph game. I nuke olefin all the time and cgd carpet. Or if it's about wore out or trashed I nuke it. But I've been staying under 10 for newer (or newer looking at least) polyester and nylon, mostly because IICRC says anything above is not safe for stain resistant carpet warranty and I don't want to get into a fight with the mills about it if something were to come up, and have to replace carpet or something. What does everyone else do?
 

XTREME1

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lets say the most expensive prespray is $50. a gallon it is $1.56 for a gallon of prespray or maybe $.50 a job. That is most expensiive
 

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