If big trucks R wrong then Electric's must be right?

[George V]

I love big trucks but there are a lot of people who don't.

It's the same agruement over-and-over. "They're too expensive, high maintenance, use too much fuel etc, etc,".. (rarely a complaint about performance)...

So, the reason people don't buy big trucks must be that they cost too much money to own and operate! Otherwise, we'd all have them, manufactures would build more and parts would be plentyful. Agreed?

If we follow the money (and logic) to the other extreme of the TM scale we find an equally small selection of electric TM manufactures (and one gas porty) which deliver respectable results, more reliable, and for lots less money than running a slide-in or PTO.

It seems every arguement ever against a Vortex could also be used against a slide-in when compared to an electric TM (or a gas porty).

Right?

Or, are you gonna flip-flop on me now and tell me about all the bennifits of owning an over priced, over powered, expensive to operate, gas guzzling, breaking down all the time, POS lawnmower?

 

[Hoody]

You guys get so gassed up about the equipment you run and whos johnson is bigger. You're cleaning CARPET not brain surgery.

 

[cleanimagemarketing]

You guys get so gassed up about the equipment you run and whos johnson is bigger. You're cleaning CARPET not brain surgery.

That's the most sensible thing I've read on any of the boards in a long time.

It is amazing to me to sit back and watch the bickering over machines. Seems more practical to focus on learning how to impress your customer with great service and professionalism. After all, if you pull up with your vortex, but you look like a grease monkey and aren't friendly, who cares how big your blower is or how much heat your unit produces.

But it is kinda fun to watch, right?

 

[Ken Snow]

You guys get so gassed up about the equipment you run and whos johnson is bigger. You're cleaning CARPET not brain surgery.

Well said Steven!

 

[Brian R]

You guys get so gassed up about the equipment you run and whos johnson is bigger. You're cleaning CARPET not brain surgery.

I'm so flattered that a young buck like yourself will listen to an old man like me.

I think I AM getting through to some of you.

Remember there is a marketing room called MB college or some stupid ass name like that...which I will be petitioning to change soon.


Anyway, if an electric TM were able to have decent performance at 200 feet and didn't trip every circuit in the home...it would be a good idea.

Maybe TEr's is that? I've only heard him speak of it....the shill. :mrgreen:

Gas powered anything is a bad idea if you can get the same result with something non gas.

Que Harpet in 10...9...8..

 

[Hoody]

I like how you assume I actually read ANYTHING you post. :shock:

 

[Brian R]

I like how you assume I actually read ANYTHING you post. :shock:

Irony shiteatinggrin

 

[Dolly Llama]

George, I think you might be missing something.

first lets do this for clarity sake.

"big trucks" can mean two things ..megamount (machine) capacity and mega "cargo" floor space and weight capacity.
There are obvious virtues to both, but lets keep them separate, cause they're two different debates

Lets stay with the "machine only " debate for now.
(it has nothing to do with brand machine either)



Due to physics, you can only pull so much air and water thru a straw (the wand and hoses)
Doesn't matter if the blower is a 4 or a 10...it will only pull so much thru the straw at a set HG lift.

what limits the lectromounts isn't the airflow, it's the lift.
That's why positive displacement blowers of "sufficient" capacity pull more than electric vac motors

"sufficient" capacity will be equal to or above the amount of air/water than can be drawn thru the straw.
For single wanding at "normal " distances, that would be a #4 blower

the megamounts shine when dual wanding cause you need double the "sufficient" capacity


anything over "sufficient" capacity is wa$te


..L.T.A.

 

[Brian R]

Does it matter whether an electric motor or a gas motor turns a blower as fars as performance goes?

Don't get me wrong....I really have no idea...so it's a real question.

Thanks

 

[Desk Jockey]

I love a big truck when you need it, but for most every day stuff we just use extended body cargo vans with Prochem's or Butlers.

On larger commercial projects we will roll out our Prochem 805 and run a couple of setups off it. The extra power for extended hose lengths and the larger recovery capacity are helpful over the standard single setups.

However when you're coming in from multiple entry points we would probably still send individual trucks.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Does it matter whether an electric motor or a gas motor turns a blower as fars as performance goes?

nope, it wouldn't make any difference at all.
"as long as" the elect motor is strong enough to drive the blower at speeds and load typically run with gas powered power TMs .

which isn't problem ....there are electric motors that are MORE than strong enough (electric motors drive freight train locomotives) .
So power isn't an issue.
The current needed to drive the motors is the rub.
The electric motors that drive locomotives are powered by large diesel powered generators

Jim Martan or one of the other Sparky's could help me here as to how much current and what type elect motor would be needed to drive a #4 blower under load, but I'm sure it's more than 110vt
and might even need 440vt to run efficiently


..L.T.A.

 

[Brian R]

Not knowing electricity so forgive my ignorance.
Can't some kind of transformer be set up to change the current from the 110 to a hgher V?

I know you can split from a 220...but I'm not sure of the other way around. Too expensive? Is it possible?

I'm sure someone would have thought about already if it were.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Voltage is not the issue, total power is.

As a rule of thumb an electric motor of about 60% of the gas motor's "hp" rating will have equivalent power.

 

[Bjorn]

g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZHqzimzulgg]

 

[Dolly Llama]

Voltage is not the issue, total power is.

As a rule of thumb an electric motor of about 60% of the gas motor's "hp" rating will have equivalent power.

and????

we've already established there are electric motors more than powerful enough to drive a PD blower.
so define/clarify what "total power" means in "simple" terms a cave man like me can understand

like how many amps, or current, or whatever the correct Sparky terms are...

I know Bane uses an electric motor to under drive a small PD blower
but what's needed as far as electrical supply to drive a motor powerful enough for mid to lg size PD blowers to peak specs??

there must be something limiting them as far current draw. (or "total power" requirements)
otherwise we'd see them in TMs now...cause they'd sure be cleaner, quieter, smaller and more durable compared to gas engines


..L.T.A.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

The limiting factor of an electric system is always going to be amps. A typical 110 residential receptacle has a limit of 15 amps. A 220 receptacle like for a dryer or oven is usually 30 amps. To obtain more power than what 220 can provide, you must go to a three phase system, which is what our industrial vacuum systems are. Our industrial vacuums are 220 three phase, 440, or 575 volts. Once you have a three phase system, it is basically unlimited to what you can power. Unfortunately three phase is not common and not practical for carpet cleaners to use.

So basically carpet cleaners are limited to these options. You can have an electric system consisting of 110 components. Most 110 component systems are unbalanced. One cord usually draws more amps than the other cord. Typically you have a blower and a pressure pump on one cord and a blower and pump out pump on the other. The cord with the pressure pump usually is pushing the limits of 15 amps 110.

The next option to use a 110 system is to do what Terry and I have done with the Nordic One. This system allows you to run two 110 residential outlets but the unit consists of 220 components. A 220 motor has two 110s that power it. Terry and I have incorporated a power converter system that I first made in the early ‘80s that converts two 110 outlets into 220. This system is totally balanced. If the left cord draws 8 amps, then the right cord draws the same amount. Also with this system, you have the capability of hooking directly to a 220 outlet if needed.

The next option for an electric system is to do what we did in the early ‘80s with the TNT/GE. This unit consists of a 5 HP 220 electric motor. 5 HP is the most HP you can obtain and not go over the 30 amp limit. This system also incorporated a gas engine. When using the system on 220 it incorporated a lot of different adaptors so you could plug in to a dryer, oven, or restaurant 220 food bar island. If there was a problem not obtaining power, you could always use the gas engine.

 

[sweendogg]

I posted about this a waaayyys back... but I see this as the future of carpet cleaning..

Big trucks will probably never go 100% electric because the power they demand for heavy loads and the battery configuration needed even with high tech cell technology, will be so heavy that they use up the valuable capacity of the trucks.

However there are already diesel electric trucks on the market in many cities that utilize complete electric motors much like the trains, to drive the vehicle. They eliminate the transmission and they have instant torque through all speeds. The diesel engine is hooked up to a generator which supplies as much electrical capacity as you would need.

When these trucks and vans become the standard. We'll be able to see truckmounts like Judson's using postive displacement blowers ran off electric motors that use power from the diesel electric plant on board the truck.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Here's the power compartment of the latest Hi-AirWatt commercial portable we produced:

. . 16" hg Lift . . . 131 CFM . . . . One 20 amp cord & one 15 amp cord.

500 PSI Pump System & Pump-Out System :

http://www3.cobbcarpet.com/zen3/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=85&products_id=4940

Larry

 

[Giorgio]

Good stuff.

Thanks!

 

[AshleyMckendree]

What is the largest PD blower one could operate with a 5hp elec. motor?

 

[dgardner]

What is the largest PD blower one could operate with a 5hp elec. motor?

Driven to full output, I'd say about a 32.

 

[dgardner]

[quote="Lee Stockwell":10dorsuq]Voltage is not the issue, total power is.

As a rule of thumb an electric motor of about 60% of the gas motor's "hp" rating will have equivalent power.

and????

we've already established there are electric motors more than powerful enough to drive a PD blower.
so define/clarify what "total power" means in "simple" terms a cave man like me can understand

like how many amps, or current, or whatever the correct Sparky terms are...

I know Bane uses an electric motor to under drive a small PD blower
but what's needed as far as electrical supply to drive a motor powerful enough for mid to lg size PD blowers to peak specs??

there must be something limiting them as far current draw. (or "total power" requirements)
otherwise we'd see them in TMs now...cause they'd sure be cleaner, quieter, smaller and more durable compared to gas engines


..L.T.A.[/quote:10dorsuq]

The electrical term for power used/available is watts, (or kW, 1000's of watts)

The accepted conversion for horsepower is 1hp = 746 watts

So, if your TM has a 30hp engine, we're talking about 22,000 watts or 22kW

A 47 blower requires about 14kW

In comparison a dryer outlet can supply 230V X 30A = 6,900 watts, or about 7kW

A standard 120V 15A outlet can supply 120V X 15A = 1,800 watts, or less than 2kW

The biggest 230V single-phase motor available (that I have found) is 10hp. Current draw is around 40A, requiring a 50A breaker or better. It would power a roots 33, or a slightly underdriven 36.

 

[dgardner]

I'm probably the only one who didn't know, but sadly I heard recently that Bob no longer manufactures any equipment.

 

[Steve Lawrence]

I totally disagree with the title of this thread.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I totally disagree with the title of this thread.

Blame George Valliant for that, I'm baffled by many of his subject titles.

 

[Willy P]

Here's the power compartment of the latest Hi-AirWatt commercial portable we produced:

. . 16" hg Lift . . . 131 CFM . . . . One 20 amp cord & one 15 amp cord.

500 PSI Pump System & Pump-Out System :

http://www3.cobbcarpet.com/zen3/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=85&products_id=4940

Larry

Great - except for the shitty pump.
IF you want REAL power from electricity, you need to look beyond 2 cords. I run 4 with usually no issues and I'm looking at incorporating a 5th on the Worrier. You can run a quality pump like a General, and 2 HP 2 stage and 2 regular 2 stage motors on 3 circuits. I know I've spent thousands and hours galore playing with brands and configurations. Domel seemed to be the most powerful, but drew too much juice and ran too hot. I put 3 big Domels in the Recoil, one set in series and the other as a booster. BIG suck, but too hot and blew breakers galore. I converted it back to all HP 2 stages, got decent vac up to 75 feet and didn't trip breakers. After that, inline boosters.
The armchair engineer.

You guys get so gassed up about the equipment you run and whos johnson is bigger. You're cleaning CARPET not brain surgery.

You're wise well beyond your years grasshopper.
And my johnson is not the biggest, but it's the prettiest and my personal favourite.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

I posted about this a waaayyys back... but I see this as the future of carpet cleaning..

Big trucks will probably never go 100% electric because the power they demand for heavy loads and the battery configuration needed even with high tech cell technology, will be so heavy that they use up the valuable capacity of the trucks.

However there are already diesel electric trucks on the market in many cities that utilize complete electric motors much like the trains, to drive the vehicle. They eliminate the transmission and they have instant torque through all speeds. The diesel engine is hooked up to a generator which supplies as much electrical capacity as you would need.

When these trucks and vans become the standard. We'll be able to see truckmounts like Judson's using postive displacement blowers ran off electric motors that use power from the diesel electric plant on board the truck.

This is dead on correct. In theory even a prius or small hybrid has the electrical capacity to easily drive a ten horse or more electric motor which is equivalent to close to an 18hp gas roughly. The big question is whether these vehicles (small hybrid cargo vans) will ever come from the factory with electric "ptos" or an easy acceptable way to tap into the available power.

 

[tmdry]

You guys get so gassed up about the equipment you run and whos johnson is bigger. You're cleaning CARPET not brain surgery.

Sticky please :!: