Interview with Werner Braun 2-20 -07

truckmount girl

1800greenglides
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Sun City, CA
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Lisa Smith
Mr. Braun,

Thank you for taking the time to open a dialog with us and allow us to voice our concerns. The fact that you are willing to listen and communicate will go far to coming to points of common ground and quickly pinpointing areas of this program which need more work.

How much is the fee for having the Space Foundation Seal on a product?

Who specifically is on the TIC, C&M sub-committee & the C&M issues management teams you referred to above?

What will happen if an approved piece of equipment is modified after sale? Say I have a X Brand truckmount which was approved with the X Brand wand, but choose to run it with an RX20 or a different wand?

What about such performance enhancing products as Kunkle/Bayco valves, glides, larger diameter vacuum hoses, etc?

If a machine is tested with a single wand, but is used in the common dual wand configuration, how does that effect the approval status?

How do you assure that a given piece of equipment submitted for testing is truly representative of what is being sold under that name? If an unscrupulous manufacturer wanted to dupe the system they could submit a modified version for testing, but be actually selling something which does not perform as well. This could be done very easily with portable extractors, as a higher performance motor could be installed in literally minutes.

The same idea applies to chemicals. Are you relying upon the honesty of the manufacturer, or are there safeguards in place?

To avoid the possibility of such deception, has CRI considered testing the same equipment in the field, without the manufacturers knowledge? Who is responsible for monitoring such issues long term?

My guess is that if you rented a Rug Doctor from your local supermarket, brought it in and had it tested, you would find significantly different results from unit to unit. how do you intend to address the issues of maintenance and wear? Will someone be conducting random testing to assure proper maintenance?

Will there be other approved testing facilities? If an individual wishes to have their equipment/system tested, but the travel is geographically prohibitive, will they be able to take it to a more local facility?

It seems testing and approval are far more burdensome for small firms and manufacturers in many ways:
Financially (as expressed by a percentage of total annual income)
Time-wise (as expressed by a percentage of man-hours)
Geographically (as expressed by a percentage of miles required to travel)
Will this issue be addressed?

What will happen to the SOA program if the majority of manufacturers of quality cleaning equipment choose not to have their equipment tested?

Who will police disputes arising from this program?

Are you personally concerned that this program may not hold up in court, if a dispute arises, or that it may violate anti-trust laws? Have these possibilities been thoroughly examined by an attorney?

Thanks and take care,
Lisa
 

steve g

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herriman, UT
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steve garrett
interesting point Lisa about the rug doctor, one of the problems with the machine and using it in a rental setting is that the consumer who rents the machine has no clue as to weather on not the machine is operating at the right performance level, how does someone know if the person who rented the machine previously didn't suck up a massive hair ball when the last consumer used the machine?? and now the machine is partially clogged cerntainly the grocery store people are not familiar with the machines operation.

As cleaners I think we all welcome standards, we welcome benchmarks, all of us want to get rid of the other carpet cleaners who give us a bad names and keep some consumers from getting their carpets cleaned at all, I don't think any of us here on the forums would be here if we didn't want to better ourselves. Maybe the SOA should focus on training of personal, because an untrained person with a gold machine could ruin the carpet. I think performance levels of equipment should be in relation to the specs of the machine, ie it has a #4 blower run at a maximum of so many feet of vac hose, generates so much GPM at a given pressure. etc some of us have worked for franchise operations myself included, haveing the carpet cleaned by a $10/hr tech from a franchise is no gurantee of a properly cleaned carpet
 
C

Carpet Dude

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Mr Mike B.......my apologies for the remark...it was uncalled for....you were merely trying to be of help.
 
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Werner Braun said:
Billy said:
Let's say that I am considering purchasing one of two similar SOA certified Truck-Mount machines made by competing manufacturers. Can CRI provide me with all of the pertinent test documents which spell out precisely how those machines fared in all phases of testing?

CRI can not share that data with you, but the individual manufacture would have all that data on his/her equipment and could provide if they so chose.


I would like to know why I am told by more than one manufacture in the paper work it says they can't share data?

Billy,

Certainly individual manufacturers have their numerical results. What CRI is hoping to avoid is gamesmanship in the market place, i.e., my machine removes 92% versus his that only removes 90%.

Mr.Braun, with all due respect, gamesmanship in the market place is already afoot. Have you ever heard a truck mount guy praise a portable? I would like to see how close they are.
 
G

Guest

Guest
One of the most important steps in removing soil is to prevacuum . The IICRC stresses this step and touts the fact that 79 percent of particulate soil is removed . Yet you seem to be very uninformed of their stance on this , which leads me to question whether you are versed in the IICRC standard of cleaning . Are you ?

It seems to me , and I'm sure you can relate , that in the hands of the untrained , any tool can be misused . How do you figure to take on this endeavor of researching and development of the performance of cleaning equipment and chemicals when you still have difficulties with proper installation , training of installers , competent and ethical sales staff ( who are actually knowledgeable of the product they are selling AND the warren tees that accompany the product ).

I have heard tell of the millions of dollars spent replacing carpet due to cleaning related claims , ( which I have a hard time understanding why anyone would accept liability for another companies mistakes ) . How is SOA going to change mills practice of eating these types of claims ?


Would you let us a little about mill warren tee claims numbers , from the most often type claimed , to the least ( example installation , defect , cleaning related ).

Thanks

James
 
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Oct 7, 2006
Messages
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I typed a whole page on Mr Bloss's response and sent it. The system lost the whole thing. Oh well, If I'm right the reply was about carpet cleaners that was against cri/soa didn't charge enough. Well low and behold believe it or not, there is a limit of what one is willing to pay for carpet cleaning. I have found that limit in my market. Every market is a little different. My results of cleaning and the way I feel about cri/soa has nothing to do with what I charge. Charging enough in this business to pay overhead, insurance on each person, payroll and profit is difficult compared to other service industries. I would like to see this change but the cri/soa will not do it.
A change in the mindset of the consumers of carpet is the only thing that can make a change and telling these persons that the rug doctor system is the best will only make matters worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carpet and the whole industry don't hold very high standards.

Harley
 
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Feb 20, 2007
Messages
39
james cooper said:
One of the most important steps in removing soil is to prevacuum . The IICRC stresses this step and touts the fact that 79 percent of particulate soil is removed . Thanks

James

Just to clarify a technical point, about the 79% number everyone keeps throwing around. And I am getting this right out of my IICRC approved study guide for the CCT class.

"According to an industry study, these soils (insoluble soil) represents 74-79% of the soils in the carpet. These soils are not dissolved by water or solvent based products and must be removed by thorough dry vacuuming before any cleaning process is to be used."

It does not say that 79% of soil is removed by dry vacuuming. Just to be technical. :wink: That I guess would depend on how good you vacuum & how good your vacuum is.
 

Greenie

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and just because they are not disolved by water or solvents, doesn't mean thay can not be removed by flushing either.

vacuum a room til your hearts content, then thoroughly flush it with a truckmount, collect soil from both, and weigh them.

I'll bet there isn't any more in the vacuum than in the waste tank by weight.
 

Jim

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Oct 7, 2006
Messages
23
What?

I just read all this and my head is spinning.

See you tonight. :roll:
 
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