Is Butler a Great low maintanice machine

[Moser Bros.]

I met a cleaner who wants to sell me his 2002 Butler in a Chevy van for $19,000 it has about 165,000 on the van and 2 or 3,000 hrs on the unit, he told me that he had a Dynachem like I have now and that the Butler is a more reliable machine that you can work on blindfolded, works great with two wands for commercial and has all the heat and suction that I need.

He also told me that he like his Butler's better than his Vortex machines, it's easier to get in a driveway and that 250 degrees is overkill, since hot water and not steam cleans deeper into the carpet fibers.

Should I buy the Butler or hold on to my Dynachem Honda 24hp #4 blower, I'm getting into commercial and need to clean as efficently as possible.

 

[TimP]

Sounds like he's going overboard on the praise of the butler. They are one of the most reliable machines on the market. They aren't a dual wand machine. And they aren't known for their heat. You'll probably look at 180-200 for a not blower exchanger and probably 230 with a blower exchanger which is fine. They also are going to use more fuel than your dynachem. If you want a dual wand machine you need something with at least a #5 blower (and no butler has ever had a real #5 blower) and some 2.5 hose/hose ports. Also you probably will have to suplement your heat when running two wands with a Little Giant propane heater. Although I've heard that the thermalwave 2 (the new ones build in the last few months) can keep up with the heat and hydramasters' new titan (which is in a testing stage) can keep up and dual wand with high flow also. Of course the vortex and AT can keep up but they are a bit more expensive.

I'd say stay with what you have unless you're going to have enough biz to keep 3 guys running full time for a prolonged period. You need at least 3 guys to really take advantage of dual wands in my opinion. If you have large commercial jobs you'll probably need to have 7-12,000 ft a day for weeks to really need a dual wand machine.

 

[The Magician]

Too many miles on that van motor and tm hrs for the price. You will be disapointed. Look at the new Magic Wand TM 320 hp for $19,800. buy a Nice older van and have heat,vac and performance.

 

[Greenie]

I'd pimp my DynaChem before dropping that money on something....you really don't "need", just want.

The name Kevin Brenny is coming to mind.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Yea I would be leary of that one. 165,000 is understandable for an 02. That is alot of miles on a PTO as stated. However with the age and the # of miles I would also be concerned of only 3000 SHOWING on the hr meter. The 3 don't match up. If you are not having any problems with the Dynachem. I would do like Greenie said and PIMP that baby out.

 

[Mike Draper]

Also, the butler will give you 20-30 deg. less heat in the middle of winter. the direct drive's just run cooler in the winter. Yes, you can work on it blindfolded and replace anything with minimal mechanical experience. Whoever told you he will get 240 or whatever out of it is full of shit! And that price is a RIPOFF for the van. The van need to be replaced. Probably gonna lose an engine or tranny any day. Not to mention the butler piping is going to start leaking soon and you will be replacing brass parts left and right before you know it. Probably gonna nead a new HX as well before long.

 

[ronald pantelas]

Mikey xj8, In all due respect, Butler high heat will deliver constant 240 + heat. I live in Pittsburgh and it does not matter winter or summer. I have had this truckmount for 16 months. It performs at the top of the market. High heat, high flow rule. Its the perfect truck for the single wander. Please do not post incorrect info about butlers. Obviously you have never been close to/or used a high heat butler. Where are all the high heat owners of the Butler, that let that comment go unanswered. A Butler pimped out with 2.5, high flow wand, is a mini vortex,and you still drive a van (comfortable). As to the original question, I'd pass on that one. Listen to rex, Ron

 

[Mikey P]

A great PTO in crappy van.

Diesel for a PTO or go slide in.

 

[Ken Snow]

I sell 3-8 Butlers a year as we turn over our fleet. This seems a little high for an 02 and the hours seem really low. Ours usually have about 95,000-105,000 miles after 5 years and 3500 Plus hours. Sounds like he is driving a lot and not cleaning so much if 6 years and that many miles vs hours. Engine and trans will need replacement soon so keep that in mind if you decide to buy. If in mint condition may be worth 18k or so, but could be worth 12-15 if in bad condition.

Ken

 

[Mike Draper]

Mikey xj8, In all due respect, Butler high heat will deliver constant 240 + heat. I live in Pittsburgh and it does not matter winter or summer. I have had this truckmount for 16 months. It performs at the top of the market. High heat, high flow rule. Its the perfect truck for the single wander. Please do not post incorrect info about butlers. Obviously you have never been close to/or used a high heat butler. Where are all the high heat owners of the Butler, that let that comment go unanswered. A Butler pimped out with 2.5, high flow wand, is a mini vortex,and you still drive a van (comfortable). As to the original question, I'd pass on that one. Listen to rex, Ron

Actually I have a butler and nobody in the country has done more custom mods to theirs than I have. And yes, Just last week I tested a High Heat Butler with the MAX HX and it would not pull 240 at the wand constant, not even close. I have cut open 2 of their coollant HX's and they used to put 200 feet of copper in the older ones and now they only put 100' in them. Which results in a much faster drop of heat. When I tested the high heat MAX with a temp gauge on the wand (shitty 2 jet wand ) it would hold 218 If you constantly let off the trigger " this was a 100 degree summer day. With the RV-360 and a temp gauge on the RV it would barely hold 200.
So you make get a peak 240 at the machine, and then a drop in temp. BTW I get 250+ at the wand. I"ll be posting a video of that soon.

 

[TimP]

Most people talk about heat ATM and not ATW. That can change due to distance of solution hose flow etc. 218 ATW is some good heat. And cleaning realistically you're not flowing continuous anyway. You can change your cleaning style to maximize your heat with a blower heat exchange machine. My CDS will run 230-240 ATM and I'd be happy with 210-220 ATW any day. That's some good heat in my opinion. You definitely don't need 230+ ATW...or 250+ atm...although it's nice in certain situations.

 

[steve g]

the problem with butlers is the machine takes up SOOOOOO much damn room in the van, the wasted space is rediculous, there is no reason they couldn't have made a waste tank or fresh tank that mounted under the console of the machine, thus freeing up space inside the van. with all their tanks and reels, you can't hardly even get inside the van. I know they have many happy owners, but they really need to work on making the units more compact

 

[Guest]

Absolutely right Tim,and most of the high heat from hxs is hot air from another source.

Kevin

 

[kmdineen]

The value of a Butler is directly related to the miles and condition of the van, more so than the hours on the Butler machine itself. 19k is too much for the set up you are considering IMHO.

 

[Numero Uno]

Will some one please explain how they assume to have a better modified Butler then any one in the industry...

Do you have custom tanks installed that are longer slimmer and have built in shelves on top and on rear,a winterizing tank,pre-spray tank ,pre spray reel,or 2.5 inch vacuum reel-Butler ?

Are you invited by the owner when new ideas are being shown or field tested...

I was the first cleaner to see the high heat when it was first brought out.I was 35 miles out on a job when the call came in to me...ICS ARCHIVE SEARCH,TKU...

A pair of the largest series Butler wands hooked up at 600 psi running for an hour straight with no fluctuation in temp,either at gauge nor- ir test gun on jets...Was there a difference at atw,yes barely...150 feet of hose...

Did you have 2 separate tank lids manufactured with 2.5 elbows then sweeping elbows with less restriction? I agree on the heat exchangers they are different on the 79 to early 90s versions. Those were to say the least monsters in size and coil capacity...

Now as for the most modified ,I believe that award goes to Mendi Mohammed .That fella had more gadgets then anyone...I mean a remote to the reel to reel up hoses...Whilst you were inside...That was just a few things he did...

Oh ,an did you have custom rake/brush holders installed ,versus the clip versions.I had to my bald head needed no more scars...lol...

So tell us what did you do...I showed you mine now you tell me yours.Now I ain't being a jerk,but if you did something different .An it can improve anyones performance do tell,pleez...

Caes -Gang leader of the Butler Band of Brothers since 79,when I first used one...My first one ran up to 28,800 hours before she was totaled.So I think I kinda know Butlers a lil bit...An remember to modify your schematic for part numbers and proper tool required for r/r...It saves so much time...

 

[Mike Draper]

I'l post some pic's soon. I need to put it up on a lift to take pics. Yes, 3" high flow ports all around, bigger hose reel (350 Feet of 2") 2 hx's that keep up with an RV-360 .(1.75 gpm ) keyed indefinately" never drops below 240. With a wand it has a hard time dropping below 265. 2.5" hose. Custom bypass for 2nd hx. Pre-heated fresh water tank " no longer needed though". As far as rake holders and shelves for bottles and shit, I'm not really interested in that. Just mods that make it clean and suck better. BTW, I tested a RV-360 on a newer butler with the MAX HX setup, puhhhhleeeaase. Maybe it was fine for a wand though, I don't know.

 

[Mike Draper]

I'l post some pic's soon. I need to put it up on a lift to take pics. Yes, 3" high flow ports all around, bigger hose reel (350 Feet of 2") 2 hx's that keep up with an RV-360 .(1.75 gpm ) keyed indefinately" never drops below 240. With a wand it has a hard time dropping below 265. 2.5" hose. Custom bypass for 2nd hx. Pre-heated fresh water tank " no longer needed though". As far as rake holders and shelves for bottles and shit, I'm not really interested in that. Just mods that make it clean and suck better. BTW, I tested a RV-360 on a newer butler with the MAX HX setup, puhhhhleeeaase. Maybe it was fine for a wand though, I don't know.

I forgot my 4 gallon, stainless steel high flow filter.

 

[Numero Uno]

Sounds very sweet,reminds me of the few dual hx units,I saw about 10 yrs ago.That were custom built for a select few...Some even had dual blowers.Steve Lachowitz has another sweet set up...

What is the width of the hose reel,did you elongate a standard one or just purchase a different type.Live or dead version...

On the 3 inch hose ports can you eloborate a bit more on those.I agree with the cleaning better concept,but the items I mentioned were more for me to see my ideas brought forth.It was always a pain to line up the rake/broom then pop them into place.Now we just insert and go.

But nice ,very nice.For the pre heating tank does it work similar to the WM version or just a recirculating type from the panel to tank ?

 

[Mike Draper]

Pre-heated tank was just a radiator ( in tank) and anti-freeze was piped into the radiator. It really needed a copper coil to be more effecient. Took it back out though. Lengthend original hose reel 10", it was a live-auto reel. Now it is manual and not live, I run 2.5 hose and the auto reel is way to weak. Basically just made piped out 3" port's. Talked with gReenie on this one and he said pipe, rather than plastic 90 deg. angle would be best. Put the pipe on the blower, and on the 2 lids on waste tank. I"m doing a couple of other things this winter to it when business slows down. When it's finished I'll post all pics.

 

[Numero Uno]

Agree on pipe over plastic,my original version was plastic worked nice ,but then 2nd lid was pipe.Wish i still had the cfm meter.I would hav e liked to haves tested each individually...

413 433 5938 anytime my gnu friend...