Is my blower fried again???

[gimmeagig]

Hi guys,
I'm not going to have a nice weekend! I have a 1999 Hydramaster CDS and last year in August I had to replace the blower. It had seized.
So now I have a similar problem, the blower still turns but there is a lot of drag, to the point that it almost shuts off the truck engine. So I abandoned the job I was about to do and scheduled an appointment with LPM, which is the local repair place.
To get a little more information, I disconnected the drive line and took off the belt that powers the blower. The driveline and the pillow blocks turn easily, but the blower is really tight. It can be turned by hand but not easily. It is a Tuthill Competitor Blower Series 21/22/23. I tried to call Hydramaster fo find out what could be the problem , but nobody picks up the phone. According to the manual I have 24 months warranty, but what if something bad got sucked into the blower, would that void the warranty?
I don't understand how blowers work, so I have no idea how the air flows through it and what could possibly get into the intake, to cause the blower to have resistance like that.
I understand lack of lubrication could cause it to seize, that is not the case here. Maybe some metal object in the intake could seize it also but it's not that either. Nothing that might have gotten into the tank even punctured the mesh intake filter.
So what could possibly make it so sluggish that you can barely turn the driveline by hand?
I have an appointment at LPM in Spokane on Monday, but I sure would like to find out a little sooner if I'm looking at a possible second blower replacement or if that is something that could be fixed.
What do you guys think?

 

[FredC]

no point in the rotation is there a dragging noise or clunk?

I'd pop the inlet off and have a look

 

[dgardner]

Do you regularly check the oil level and grease the bearings on the blower?

 

[GeneMiller]

If a piece of metal got in you would know. The screen should keep out anything that could damage it. What made the other one seize something happening once could be the blower but twice. We are talking about a really reliable item. Are you one of these guys that runs soapy water through to clean it outIs the blower constantly sucking up water and foam from your tank One my old machine I looked inside the blower and it was surprisingly clean. Very little rust and no debris buildup. I lubed it very rarely and always let it cool for a few minutes. I never ran water through to clean it out as some suggest. It's designed to move air only with really tight tolerances.

Gene

 

[gimmeagig]

The blower is the newer model where the bearings are in oil baths and they don't need to be lubed. The Pillow blocks and the U Joints are the only points that I need to grease, and I did that religiously every 50 hrs. And no, there is no point where the blower rotation sticks it is just very tight all around. I'm just wondering , if I can turn the blower by hand how can that possibly bog down my engine?
Here is a little more information about what actually happened:
I started up the machine with the water pump clutch off and engine idling and then the Machine would come up to about 1200rpm and within 15 seconds the rpms would start dropping quickly to almost standstill, where I thought it might have been the driveline because I also heard a squealing sound coming from the area where the driveline is underneath the cover , not really loud but unfamiliar.
I don't want to open the blower because it might void the warranty and besides I totally don't know what I'm doing there.

 

[FredC]

I wouldn't open the blower just pop the inlet piping and look in....and give it a spin to see if it spins freely

but based on your last post it almost sounds like there is a vacuum that can't be broken that increases with rpm bogging it down........like something stuck in the inlet system or collapsing (could be on exhaust side too)

but of course if you are uncomfortable or worried about the warranty wait till you can get it to a pro

 

[GeneMiller]

If you can turn the blower by hand it's probably not the blower. It should feel pretty smooth. Squealing is usually belts slipping. The question is why are they squealing.. Frozen bearing Check the belts and look for glazing, kind of a high polish. It means the belts are slipping. Look at the components being driven by the belt. Check bearings. Look for debris around moving parts. Parts that are failing usually show some signs. Noise and debris being a couple of them.

Gene

 

[gimmeagig]

If you are talking about what happens when I put my hand on the vacuum hose... it's nothing like that.I checked the hose that I had hooked up from the tank to the filter and there is no obstruction.
A while back I has a problen with the machine not coming up to idle and I thought it was the Pods but I ended up just replacing the vacuum lines and that Fixed it. I'm not totally sure what those pods actually do, so could they be the problem?
I also do not know much resistance is normal when you turn the blower.All i know is that it was a whole lad harder to turn today than what I am used to.
The only thing I regularly run through the blower is Schaeffer Penetrol lubricant. I use Esteam Attack Prespray and I rinse with Pro's choice Last Step on most of my jobs, so I really don't get much foam. I did spray paint the inside of the tank lid and that partially flaked off again over time.
Those flakes show up on the screen filter occasionally but the don't go through, so I wasn't worried about that.

 

[gimmeagig]

BTW even if we can't get to the bottom this thing, it sure is nice to know you guys are here trying to help. I really appreciate it!

 

[Jim Martin]

have you checked your vacuum relief..it may be stuck closed...and not allowing the blower to breath and bogging it down......

 

[GeneMiller]

I can't speak for this machine but that little a15 could pull 20hg and never bog.

Gene

 

[dgardner]

have you checked your vacuum relief..it may be stuck closed...and not allowing the blower to breath and bogging it down......

I thought about that too - but if it's harder than normal to turn by hand with the belts off it may point to something else.

Roxy - you mentioned that the blower is a DSL with oil at both ends, so no grease required. You do check the oil level, right?

 

[gimmeagig]

Oh yeah, I check the oil level. It is possible that I didn't lube the last blower often enough because I was so new at this.
But now that I got to shell out 3500.- for a new blower and drive to Mukilteo and back in a day....I'm really OCD about the maintenance.
I've got the hours and the maintenance schedule on my phone now.
As far as checking the vac relief valve, I can't do that right now because I had a friend help me take off that blower belt and we did not put it back together, because I figured LPM would probably disassemble it again anyway.

 

[dgardner]

If it's under warranty, maybe you want to take it in fully assembled? Just a thought...

 

[gimmeagig]

That is what I was thinking too.

 

[Shane T]

This may not explain why the blower is hard to turn by hand but if the engine is bogging down you may a restriction on either the suction or discharge side. I had a unit with a blower heat exchanger. The coil inside the exchanger moved and restricted the air flow out of it. This cause the engine to dramatically bog down after it reached a certain rpm. The blower could suck all the air it wanted but was unable to discharge it.

 

[gimmeagig]

So I guess the test for that would be to see if there is any air coming out of the blower exhaust when I fire it up, right?

 

[Shane T]

It may be difficult to feel any difference in actual air flow or velocity. I was able to remove the heat exchanger and test the unit without it in place. The unit ran perfectly without it and after further inspection I found the coil had been allowed to move and restrict flow.

 

[gimmeagig]

Well, whatever it is, having bought that replacement blower committed me to that machine and I hope that whatever it needs, is less than another new blower. I was thinking my next big challenge would be rebuilding the aging waste tank> I found a guy who could replace the whole bottom for about 1000.-. I 'm ready for that, but so far the tank has been OK after I floated some marine epoxy on part of the bottom. It's been holding (knock on wood) for going on two years, I think.
I kind of look at my truck as an airplane, something that can be rebuilt for a long time. I've just grown attached to this thing and I want to keep it running.

 

[dgardner]

The old carpenter proudly held up his hammer and said "I've had this same hammer for forty years! I've replaced the handle about ten times, and the head twice......

 

[bob vawter]

do you have a missing towel.....
seriously...turn machine on and drible some clean water thru the intake....slowly increse volume of water till the blower either straightens up or blows up whichever first

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Im with bob on the towel.

Has your waste tank over flowed recently? If so do what Bawb says and flush that blower out with lots and lots of clean water with it running... if its really gummed up with grease and oil, take a cup of Kerosene, turn the machine on and dump it into the blowers inlet. The blower exhaust will smoke like a mother, but It will get the gunk out. Then follow with lots of water, and then a 30 second shot of WD-40

 

[Jim Martin]

Schaeffer Penetrol lubricant........

there is probably the problem right there....this stuff is leaving a build up and causing the blower to stick....
willing to bet you flush and clean the blower out it will loosen back up like mentioned above....

this is one of those things that some people agree with and some don't but I never ever spray anything down inside my blowers...things like this happen where they start getting all gummed up and it also gets on the heat exchangers and starts plugging them up.....

what I do is let the machine sit and idle...cool everything down..and clear the blower and dry everything out while I am picking everything up and wrapping up my hoses....I have pulled the inlet pipe off and looked inside to see nice clean blowers that have 1000's of hours on them....and I have never had one give me a single problem.......

 

[ronbeatty]

I totally agree with Jim, don't spray anything in the blower just let it run and cool at the last job of the day.

 

[Mark Saiger]

Here is a video I did on cleaning out and lubing the Butler Blower as Butler has us do....

If bogging, could just be debris and junk jamming it up.

 

[Mikey P]

Schaeffer Penetrol lubricant........

there is probably the problem right there....this stuff is leaving a build up and causing the blower to stick....
willing to bet you flush and clean the blower out it will loosen back up like mentioned above....

this is one of those things that some people agree with and some don't but I never ever spray anything down inside my blowers...things like this happen where they start getting all gummed up and it also gets on the heat exchangers and starts plugging them up.....

what I do is let the machine sit and idle...cool everything down..and clear the blower and dry everything out while I am picking everything up and wrapping up my hoses....I have pulled the inlet pipe off and looked inside to see nice clean blowers that have 1000's of hours on them....and I have never had one give me a single problem.......

What if you take a week off?

No lube?

 

[Jim Martin]

What if you take a week off?

No lube?

nope.....and I leave my drain ports open while I am gone so no moister builds up...

 

[GeneMiller]

My 5m was clean inside with very little rust. I only lubed it a few times when I accidentally sucked up water from a stuck float switch. I do like Jim, I let it cool down before shutting off. The heat evaporates out the moisture. Spray a little wd40 or similar on your bike chain and watch how it collects dirt and debris. No thanks. More than one person here has sucked a rag into their blower but only when working on it. You can't do that past the filters.
If you start by finding the belts that were slipping you'll narrow down your problem. Your assuming it's the blower because you had that problem before. With a cds it could be bearings locking up.

Gene

 

[Mikey P]

hmmmm..

So find a field to park over and suck in some kerosene to clean out the muck and go lubeless...


Will this void warranties, Ron?

 

[Dolly Llama]

It's rare i lube blowers too
But did try Bob's plain, clear water rinse technique.
First time I'd heard of it was from him...thought he was nuts...til i tried it

While the blower is running and hot, i trickle water thru the spray lube port..it really does the trick

BUT, BUT, BUT, i don't have blower HX'ers ..I wouldn't want the gunk 'n crUd slurry that I see coming out of my blower going into HX'ers, that's fo-sho

I will say with absolute certainty, Bob's way is the cat's azz though


..L.T.A.