Is there really a difference between different portables??

ruff · Oct 30, 2013

Just had a small breakage in a brass fitting in my portable.
After I was done cursing for a few hours, I found out what it was.

Made me think: Most portable these days are surprisingly good (sure ain't your grandma portable). Most pretty much use the same vacuum motors and pumps, they're roto-molded, etc.

Mine had a small brass fitting that moves water from the clean water tank to the dirty water tank and primes the pump.

Could the manufacturer have put a more durable fitting?? (given this is a 5 year old machine.)
Could they have protected the motors better from the leak? (water got to the motor. Is it toast?)

So, if I am paying more, am I really getting a better Machine? Or for me what's even more important - a more dependable machine (less breakage)?

Are some machines (manufacturers) Better designed? Are components better protected? Designed so that components will last longer (better heat dissipation?) Better components? Hardier?

Or should I base my buying decision on price alone?

Which manufacturer do you find makes better designed, more dependable machines?

Desk Jockey · Oct 31, 2013

Look at design is it designed for cleaners convenience?

Is the opening large enough to pour in without spilling.
Does the dump valve drain to a level you can directly dump into a toilet when needed or a 5-gallon bucket?
Large wheels to make moving easier, not small castors.
Controls where you can get to them without needing to bent over?
Solution & Recovery tanks large enough so you don't wear yourself out with the bucket brigade (auto fill & auto pumpout can be as much of a liability as they can an advantage)
Handles that make lifting and carrying easy

Ofer they all have similar components, all are fairly similar, a plastic box with a pump and vac blowers, all POS for the semipro cleaner.

A necessary evil in the cleaning business, hate them! :winky:

ruff · Oct 31, 2013

Thanks and I agree Richard and your list is absolutely correct .
And I hate working with portable just as much as you do. Actually more!!! :eekk:

as being in San Francisco I have to use them a lot more than I'd like to.

I do wonder though if some of the manufacturer's will put better parts in. For example, could they have put a stainless steel part instead of the brass fitting (angle) that broke due to metal fatigue. Would that have helped?
In a way I think that these little things and smarter designs are going to make the difference.

Just wondering what's other people experience with different manufacturers and if paying a higher price, do we really get something better?

For example: A U.S products portable with the same main components as say a Mytee is almost twice the price.
Is it better?
Does any manufacturer actually makes a better portable?
And if people here think that yes, I think we'd all like to know who?

Larry Cobb · Oct 31, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
Look at design is it designed for cleaners convenience?
Is the opening large enough to pour in without spilling. (Good Idea)
Does the dump valve drain to a level you can directly dump into a toilet when needed or a 5-gallon bucket? (Good Idea)
Large wheels to make moving easier, not small castors. (Good Idea)
Controls where you can get to them without needing to bent over?
(Don't Agree with, Switches in the base can be changed in a few minutes without any tools)
Solution & Recovery tanks large enough so you don't wear yourself out with the bucket brigade (Good Idea, Auto-Fill and Pump-Out Better)
Handles that make lifting and carrying easy (Good Idea)

Ofer they all have similar components, all are fairly similar, a plastic box with a pump and vac blowers, all POS for the semipro cleaner.
(Absolutely Wrong, Take Vacs as an example - Chinese 2-stage vacs = 240 AirWatts vs. LMB5A Vac =673 AirWatts)
Pumps available - 60 PSI Diaphragm @ 1 GPM vs new Cat Pump 500 PSI max @ 50% Higher Flow Rates

Portables have improved greatly in the last couple of years, mainly due to new more efficient designs in vac motors & pumps.

This model has all the latest improvements in a basic extractor:

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=85&products_id=5103

Ofer; The Mytee modified machine above, is a more powerful extractor than similar U.S. Products machines.

Larry

ruff · Oct 31, 2013

Larry, what about:

Better fittings and connections. Is there a way to use better parts that will not break as easily.
Protect motors etc from leaks?
Better design for servicing.
Better design for dealing with heat to prolong components life?

Shawn Forsythe · Oct 31, 2013

Richard has some fine points. One that I will add is the exterior design as it pertains to transport. A badly engineered portable will be difficult to load in a vehicle. Ideal is one that has sliding rails on the back-side, and no protruding components that will hinder tilting and pulling up and in to a vehicle by one person. As well, the design of the pump system should be tolerant of horizontal loading (e.g., oil in a pump crankcase).

Other items to note have to do with the cost to own the machine. Non-cosmetic Internal design really makes a difference. Sometimes a machine looks "the bomb", but compromises repair-ability, reliability and performance too.

Examples;

Placement of wet components in proximity to, or above electrical connections and components. There are many designs out there that place a pump, hose or fittings that is prone to leaking right above, or near electrical electrical components, then subject to spray or wetting. Worse yet are designs that place the filling location for the solution tank in a manner that errrant splashing runs right down into an electrical area.

Interior design can either make a machine easy to maintain and repair, or really difficult. Look for ease to remove components that routinely need servicing or are a wear item. This can save you a bit in the hourly charges for repairs, or aggravation if you are doing it yourself. Some systems require completely empty tanks to service, making testing more time consuming.

Design also plays a role in performance. A poorly configured vacuum system can restrict vacuum, or induce foaming in the recovery tank. Pump systems should have adequate screen filtration, quality fittings and hoses, and efficient drive motors.

The areas of service should be easily accessible, with durable and easy to use fasteners. Without naming names, there are a few extractors that require removing of base plates wherein these plates are fastened to the main body with aluminum threaded inserts in the plastic body. Needless to say, one by one, each of these fastening points become unusable with corrosion, galling, twist-out, and cross threading. I see units come in with two bolts fastening the baseplate to the body. The only remedy is to replace the entire body. These are jsut a few examples of how engineering design of the components as a system can immensely impact the value of the unit.

Desk Jockey · Oct 31, 2013

Looks like a decent unit Larry, fugly but but functional.

I like the US Products Pex 500, if I were buying a portable I think I'd lean towards it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bgcXoR6KCM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/140698489250?lpid=82

 I’d hang my hoses in a net bag on one of those hangers and a low pressure injection sprayer on the other. Then I’d carry two buckets, a two & half for fresh water inside a 5-gallon container for waste water with a qt of emulsifier and a measuring cup. Get one of those turbine vacuum attachments for vacuuming these high rise jobs. And carry it in the bucket too.

To save time I’d also unload the machine and fill it with water from a couple of 5-gallon head packs to get me a head start so I hit the ground running.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

ruff · Oct 31, 2013

Shawn,
Those are all great points.
So who makes the machine that has all of that??

Yes, we know that you work for a supplier, however your opinion is appreciated and people here learned to respect your integrity.

What brand and machine do you recommend? (We already know who Larry does :eekk:

And beside, we're concerned about service to his units, once TX succeeds.)

Richard, I don't know about US products. They package them very nicely and they're always the most expensive. Did you find from experience that they're really better?

Shawn Forsythe · Oct 31, 2013

Ofer,

I'm hoping you can understand the position I am in.
While I have my favorites, that I freely share in one-to-one conversations directly with customers, my position inhibits me from speaking publicly on some matters. The company that employs me distributes most of the major brands. My personal opinion can all too easily be viewed as company-wide favoritism. In doing so, I can easily alienate one or more of our vendors. And I never want to be making sour any of the recommendations or sales that other store managers may make.

I learned my lesson well, a couple of years ago when I congratulated an equipment company on an achievement they had made. The next morning a competing manufacturer issued a strongly worded letter to us, asking if we wished to remain as a distributor of their line.

I enjoy sharing my knowledge, but I have these limits. I hope they lead you to ask some questions about the equipment you might consider, as well as help others in the same.

Just adding one more piece of advice here. I have found that no company builds well across their complete offerings. As such, if you hear someone say they hate a particular machine, it does not necessarily mean that a legitimate criticism exists across their line. As an example, one portable manufacturer whom I have sold a few machines for, I sold because I am particularly pleased with the design characteristics of a model. This same company also has a unit of similar specifications I will sell only under the strongest protest, to any customer.

ruff · Oct 31, 2013

Thanks Shawn,
Appreciated and understood.

Larry Cobb · Oct 31, 2013

Ofer Kolton said:
Larry, what about:

Better fittings and connections. Is there a way to use better parts that will not break as easily.

Brass pipe fittings are used on most extractors
Protect motors etc from leaks?

Leaks should be rare on good designs

Better design for servicing.

Some designs with room are easy to service

Better design for dealing with heat to prolong components life?

We use 100 CFM fans in our hi-perf portables

ALL Extractors with electric heaters . . .

are wasting power, better used for additional vac & pump power.

Larry

Desk Jockey · Oct 31, 2013

I agree with Larry. The benefit of heat comes at a trade off for power. Restricted flow to gain heat isn't a great solution either.

Ofer what about OP, it dries faster, looks as good or better than portable results?

Mikey P · Nov 1, 2013

OP or shampoo first than run a small full performance porty like the Edic Galaxy or a 3 stage Ninja over it so you can sleep at night.

I assume this for very random jobs where you don't need all the fluff of auto this and auto that to weight you down.

Mikey P · Nov 1, 2013

and any "Portable" that can't be brought up or down a staircase by one guy, isnt.

Goomer · Nov 1, 2013

Larry Cobb said:
ALL Extractors with electric heaters . . .

are wasting power, better used for additional vac & pump power.

Larry

This Porty Hack wholeheartedly agrees with that statement.

Ron Werner · Nov 1, 2013

for ease of maintenance, use, etc, thats why I liked the Cheyenne. When you open it up, the vac motors are right there, and the pump is easily accessible. You don't have to empty the soln tank to get at the motors either, just the recovery tank

ruff · Nov 1, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
Ofer what about OP, it dries faster, looks as good or better than portable results?

Out of respect to you, your ancesstors and world wide Chavezes, I will pretend that you never made that remark :winky:

ruff · Nov 1, 2013

And yes, I also agree with Larry. I never buy a portable with heat. (I do have a separate heater that I can add, if I need extra heat.) It makes the portable components compartment too tight and prone to trouble, in addition it puts too much demand on the houses electrical circuits (in my opinion Willy and no I am not moving their stove, dryer or 99 year old grandma).

I agree about the portability Mike. I used to carry them up the stairs myself, however once my Chiropractor bills exceeded my margin of profit, I do only buildings with elevators. Even greed has its limits. Though the portables that are easy to drag up usually have less power or less holding capacity which is a drag with the bucket brigade. Call me superficial, superstitious or both, but I don't trust the automatic fill and dump in a client highrise apartment. Something in the word "water damage" has a certain negative ring to it.

In general, the more features bells and whistles a porty has, the more will go wrong. I like mine as simple as possible.

All these potential issues and the plain drag of using a portable, are the reason why people like me would rather run 250 feet of hose than disturb all the dust that has been collecting on it in the back of the van. Unfortunately in S.F. mine does not have enough chance to collect all the dust I'd like it to :winky:

Mikey P · Nov 1, 2013

and how often do you actually use a porty?

do you bring along your empowered water or just use the hetch hetchy?

compared to TM use do you find that you have to use more concentrated pre spray and rinse agent?

what gizmo are you agitating with?

do you use an RE with your porty?

whats the most vac hose you'll dare use?

ruff · Nov 1, 2013

I use it at least once a week or more.
I agitate with a brush- What a concept, ha?
Hetchhetchy water is great (very soft) I usually rinse with a diluted Procyon or DFC rinse.
Since I have the 500 PSI pump and the 2" outlet it cleans very very well and the recovery is surprisingly good. Some time it will need a little stronger pre-spray, more agitation and a longer dwell time. Those principle of cleaning are correct. Mostly though it just requires me to slow down both wet and dry passes and do more repetitions and more dry passes. That is why I charge more for portable jobs. It just takes much longer to do a good job.
250 with the CDS. 350 with the Apex

Mikey P · Nov 1, 2013

tooth brush? Grandi Groomer? 175?

I meant how much hose on your portable....sheesh..

Desk Jockey · Nov 1, 2013

Ofer Kolton said:
Out of respect to you, your ancesstors and world wide Chavezes, I will pretend that you never made that remark

Hey now, you're straining our friendship being a porty guy! :winky:

ruff · Nov 1, 2013

Mikey P said:
tooth brush?

Yep.
It is a very versatile tool. Once I can't use them for personal hygiene, they graduate.
You should try it. It will help connect you with your Zen nature.

ruff · Nov 1, 2013

Doc Holliday said:
Hey now, you're straining our friendship being a porty guy!

I'll try to pretend that you did not make that remark as well.
Though my neck is getting all strained now from all this burying my head in the sand. :winky:

Where should I send the Chiro bills?

Desk Jockey · Nov 1, 2013

Is there really a difference between different portables??

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

RIP

Member

Member

RIP

Member

Member

Member

Administrator

Administrator

Member

Member

Member

Member

Administrator

Member

Administrator

Member

Member

Member

Member