Jim P, Tony & the rest of you gurus on cleaning chemistry

[Bob Foster]

Sodium bisulfite
Sodium sodium metasilicate

I'm intrigued by the versatility of these compounds. Where and how do you use them?

Can you explain to us some of the dangers of oxidizers and reducers to our fabrics and to the people using them.

 

[orangeforce123]

Sodium metasilicate is not a cleaning agent by itself. It is a VERY strong base. The pH of a 1% aqueous solution is about 13. It is used as an alkali builder. It also is a water softener by bonding with the metals in water.

Sodium bisulfite has a low ph. Anti-browning and as a way to lower ph.

We use Sodium metasilicate in our OrangeForce 1 as a water softener.

We use citric acid in our OrangeForce 10, because it is safter than Sodium bisulfite.

 

[harryhides]

The folks that really know this stuff far better than I are Shawn Forsythe, Scott Warrington and Jim Smith.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Sodium (meta) bisulfite is a mild reducing agent that was used a great deal more in the past when true cellulose browning from jute backings was as common as soil wicking is today.

Back "in the day" we bought it primarily in liquid form as browning treatments, coffee stain removers, and as the primary ingredient in "Haitian Cotton" cleaning shampoo and detergent.

Those liquid products lost potency over time, and results where often inconsistent depending on how long they were on the shelf before use.

The powdered products available today can be kept "fresh", mixed with warm water, and are primarily used for coffee and other tannin stains.

Be careful not to mix sodium bisulfite with strong concentrations of acetic acid; it will release an irritating gas that has hospitalized cleaners more than once over the years.

 

[Willy P]

Potato whitener...... I can cut and paste with the best of them :wink: (Works well on a messy fringe)



Sodium metabisulfite is a food additive also known as E223. It is known to be present in fruit juices and candy bars. The primary ingredient of campden tablets for wine and beer making. It also act as whitening agent in some processed fruits.

When used in wine making or any food processing operations. Sodium metabisulfite reacts with acid forming sulfur dioxide, which act as anti-oxidizing an and sanitizing agent. As time progress , the gas is released into the atmosphere or break down and bind with the other components.Fine white granular product with a pungent sulfur dioxide gas odor. May irritate the skin. May cause irritations and burns to eyes. Harmful when swallowed or inhaled. May cause severe and fatal allergic reactions
if inhaled or swallowed by some asthmatic and other sulfite-sensitive individuals. React with acid to form toxic and irritating sulfur dioxide gas.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Adding a tad more (as it pertains to OUR industry)...

Sodium Metasilicate used to be a oft used detergent builder when a higher alkalinity is preferred and because of a secondary characteristic of the chemical. It also acts counter-intuitively as a pretty darn good inexpensive corrosion inhibitor. Rarely used today, because of the alkalinity being quite a bit too high for 5th generation carpet fibers. It also tends to leave the carpet with a harsh hand (stiff), if left as any residue. Sodium Metasilicate acts by plating out on reactive metals, such as brass. The downside is that the plating out is cumulative, causing heat conduction problems in heat exchangers, and fouling of small orifices that require periodic descaling to remove. Much better corrosion inhibitors are generally used today that don't contribute to hardware scaling and don't effect the fibers being cleaned negatively. As well, progress has been made to clean with lower pH's.

Sodium Metabisulfite is a medium-strong reducing agent, very popularly used in tannin and coffee stain removers. It's strong points are that it is relatively inexpensive, and generally safe to most dye systems used in carpet. Some have a dislike for it's strung, pungent odor which is also quite irritating if you have to use more than a little on a particular project. Some coffee stains don't respond well to reducing agents, as many newer "designer" and nearly all decaf coffees now use artificial colors that respond better to oxidizer type stain removers.


This post is certified as 100% cut-n-paste free. LOL

 

[Willy P]

Ewe no ell thim fortee dullar werdz Schawnn- Eyem jest ur baysick fermyerd ideeit.

Damn, after I googled that other stuff too....


Disclaimer- I've used tater whitener with good success. Individual results may vary. The poster assumes no liability and will not contribute to your cost savings.

 

[J Scott W]

Now that Shawn and Jim have done the heavy lifting on this topic, I will add a bit on the potential dangers.

Reducers and oxydizers work by producing chemical reactions. Most cleaning agents work through physical reactions. Anytime you have a chemical reaction occurring there are potential problems that would nto happen with a physical reaction. These have a greater effect on natural fabrics.

Becareful when using any oxidizer or reducer on cotton as it will weaken the fabric. Dyes can be removed as well as stains. Again this is especially true when cleaning natural fibers. Cotton be be over-whitened. The natural color fo the fringe on a wool rug with cotton foundation is pure white like your underwear (when new). It should be off-white. Wool can turn yellow after the use of strong oxidizers.

Sodium bisulfate and sodium silicate are common oxidizer and reducer in our industry, but there are many others.

 

[Bob Foster]

Thanks for everyone's input.

So its fair to say that there are safer, more pleasant to work with and even more effective cleaning agents to use than Sodium Metabisulfite for stain removal and browning.

Can either of these be used prophylacticly to prevent browning instead of just removing browning that has already occurred on cotton, jute and other natural fibers?

Perhaps our experts could go more into reducers and oxidizers in general and maybe even explain what a buffer is and how it works in a compound.

 

[Willy P]

Can either of these be used prophylacticly ?

Always wear your rubber gloves

 

[hogjowl]

Unlike Warrington and that other guru, I am not going to contribute to this thread because you didn't specifically ask for me to.

I have my pride, you know?