Just how much dry soil..

[Mikey P]

can your average HWE method remove?

A well formulated prespray followed by a slow, high flow well formulated rinse is going pull out a certain level of dry particle soil. The proof is in the waste tank. So just how much time are we wasting by pre vaccuming the average track home?
If the are no chunks of crud, pop corn, rocks, leaves, legos or other wise, is pre vacuuming a complete waste of time or needed to justify your price?
Lets keep doggy homes, beach side estates, homes with no grass and 8 kids out of this.


The reason I ask is I imagine some cleaners will have to lower prices this winter to compete/stay alive. The property management sector needs cleaning all year long. If you want that work you'll have to "hack" it a bit to compete. Pre vacuuming is probably the first step that can be left out in order to speed up the process (in most homes)
Push comes to shove, the carpet near the front and back doors are the primary areas that should have the yarns parted for inspection. Perhaps the stair case as well.


Your thoughts?

 

[Art Kelley]

Pre-vacuuming a carpet that has been vacuumed by the customer has zero impact on the finished job. A cleaner making $100/hour redundantly vacuuming carpet could provide the customer far more value by actually cleaning other rooms or furnishings in that same time.

 

[Guest]

Never expected to see that on this board; especially with the title and all. :roll:

 

[Dolly Llama]

Pre-vacuuming a carpet that has been vacuumed by the customer has zero impact on the finished job.

I disagree Art.
many, dare I say MOST custys don't vac right, and/or their vacs are so full or poorly maintained they ain't vaccing much up anyway.

having said that, we don't vac every job and never have
(don't tell my friends here though )


..L.T.A.

 

[Brian R]

Doesn't vacing just decrease the dry times by not having to rinse the dry soil out thereby using less water to do so?

That's what I have been told and I think I have experienced it.

 

[Jimmy L]

Running a 18 inch Hoover Conquest takes no time at all.

That is IF you care to vacuum.


My theory is that this pre vac standard was started for the PORTY crowd.
Minimal suck in the first place.

AND!

The OP/Bonnet/SHAMPOO crowd.

Especially the SHAMPOO crowd because THAT is really the only form of soil removal for that method.

 

[Jim Martin]

Pre-vacuuming a carpet that has been vacuumed by the customer has zero impact on the finished job. A cleaner making $100/hour redundantly vacuuming carpet could provide the customer far more value by actually cleaning other rooms or furnishings in that same time.

most have inadequate vacuums....just fly over the top of there carpets...never edge

almost every time some one tells me they already vacuumed I can almost always fill mine
not to mention the ones who have central vac system..very low suction and no beater bars (on most)

this is not a step I want to skip...the more I get up vacuuming the less I have clogging filters and taking away from the performance of my equipment.....I find ways to cut my time on the truck..not the cleanings.....

 

[Chris Muetterties]

Just this week we did an empty rental, Landlord had the place cleaned before we went in. It was CLEAR that it had been vacuumed. I almost told my guy to skip it, but waited to se what we got on the front room. :shock: OMG we filled the Sanitaire on the first room. Arts way of thinking would have really shorted this landlord. He paid us 300.00 for 1.25 hrs work and I'm sure glade we did not count on someone else's shoddy vacuuming.

That being said when an Apt complex ant to pay substandard rates we can give them substandard quality.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Just this week we did an empty rental, Landlord had the place cleaned before we went in. It was CLEAR that it had been vacuumed. .

we did one similar a few weeks ago.
Matter of fact, the dude just put the vac away.
We pulled out the Bissel and filled that cotton picker several times

same in a empty several months ago, though it was obvious it needed vacced to a "trained eye" .
The landlord said he vacced.
We pulled half a trash bag full of hair and dog dander out.
(only 700sf of carpet too)


..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

I dont use a filter on my vac hose by I filter my drain hose when I dump.

It is always full of crud, pop corn, rocks, leaves, legos or other wise, shouldn't that be good enough?









































play with me here..

 

[Brian R]

Don't you worry about getting crap in your gate or ball valve?

 

[John Watson]

You guys are starting to speak like that Ron guy from Canadia, and some of you probably gave him shit!!!

 

[timnelson]

I heard that pre-vacuuming is so overrated that IICRC will probably remove it in their next revision of the standard. About time.





















LOL @ Mikey

 

[rhyde]

Most residential vacuums are junk to begin with on top of that are not working properly bags full, belt slips, brushes worn.
IMO….It’s very important to Vacuum

 

[steve g]

I will say strait up I don't pre vac that many houses, here is the deal as I see it, if the customers vac is working halfway decent and they use it, you will not see any benefit to pre vaccing, however alot of people think their vac is working and the belt is off and or its clogged and not picking up. when I look at the carpets before I start if this is a problem I can generally see debris on the fibers, look also for hair, tiny bits of stuff etc. these jobs need a prevac. I also strongly stress to the customer the virtues of vacuuming, because if I don't they carpets will get dirty much faster and I don't want them thinking it was my cleaning job that caused it. in a house that needs the prevaccing I compare the debris I get out in the vac vs whats in the waste tank basket, if I prevac I get probably 3x more total debris out than I would if I just hit it with the truckmount, I also believe leaving all that shit in the carpets will cause resoiling much faster, so really you are only hurting yourself and the long term appearance of the job you did.

 

[Ernie G]

I don't want to trust my techs judgement to decide if something should be vacuumed,nor do I want to guess myself. You can't really tell by looking, it can have vacuumed appearance and be full of debris. The question is, are you trying to get the carpet as clean as possible, or are you just trying to make it look clean? Maybe an owner operator can make that judgement himself, but I choose to take that away from my techs. Also for the price we charge, i'm trying give them value. We walk into houses all the time that have been vacuumed and we vac. again. By making that our standard, we add value to the client, do a better job, and take the decision away from the techs, because this is part of our procedure.

 

[Dolly Llama]

vaccing is WAY over rated.

look at this way,

if you're using quality chems, any soil, dander, hair, etc left in the carpet after a thorough flush/rinse extract will be clean gUnk

right?

what???


..L.T.A.

 

[Loren Egland]

As Mikey prefaced, some carpets are best cleaned with a good prevacuuming. But the time spent on the others to vacuum could be spent cleaning and flushing.

If you are using a Rotary Jet Extractor, you are getting all sides of the carpet. You have agitation and liquid brushes flushing and building heat on the fibers. Also are vacuuming in all directions as the cleaning heads separate the fibers.

Sure, you will get some dry particulate soil out with your vacuuming, but you will also get some out with your extraction cleaning.

If dry particulate soil is easy to remove, then theoretically you could do that after you cleaned the fibers of oily or sticky soils.

We have to make mud to remove most soils that make the carpet look dirty. We make mud by adding water to these soils. If we didn't make mud, we couldn't get the carpet clean. :wink:

So if you clean an average 1000 sq ft job, and you spend 1 hour vacuuming, and 2 hours cleaning, (3 hours total) will you get the carpet to either be as clean or look as clean as you would if you didn't prevac and spent all 3 hours Rotovacing? My money is on 3 hours of flushing instead of just 2 hours of flushing.

 

[steve g]

I agree with not leaving the judgment call to the techs. in my mind if it needs prevac and I don't do it, I am hurting the long term look of the cleaning job I just did, I don't wanna do that, just as important is telling the customer if they have a problem with their vac, I know from personal experience with my own house, my carpet kept getting dirty much faster than I thought it should I normally clean it every 6 mos, well after 3 mos it was looking bad again, after a couple times of this, I noticed the debris in the carpet I should not be seeing as I was cleaning, hair, bits of crap etc. I then checked our vac and the belt was off, it would pick up large debris bits of paper etc so it gave the impression it was working. a new belt and the carpets went back to staying clean like they should. you don't want the customer to think your cleaning job caused resoiling.

 

[Jim Williams]

Loren, I started Rotovaccing a few weeks ago and if I don't vacuum first I get alot of balled up pet hair that the RV 360 won't suck up. I now break out the Sanitaire on every job. I'm now achieving a level of clean I have never seen with a wand, and no more back pain!

To answer mikeys question, I did a ladies house yesterday that I did 5 months ago and I am positive that I vacuumed up way more dog hair than what was in my filter basket the first time I did it with no prevac. As for actual dirt, I can't tell you exactly.

 

[Rex Tyus]

This is an issue I ponder daily. There are times when it is absolutely needed. There are times when it is a total waste of time. I see some guys saying the homeowner can't vacuum proper and they don't want the tech making decisions as to whether or not.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THE TECH IS GONNA VAC ANY BETTER THAN THE HOME OWNER? :shock:

I mean honestly. Tell the truth. Techs are generally paid on production, NO?

The main reason we do this is because it makes US, feel superior to Stanley Steemer. Just admit it.

 

[Ernie G]

Rex I disagree, if you train your techs right, its possible to get a good vac. job. If I work with someone for 2-weeks, I can usually tell if they get it, and if they don't get it, their gone. One of the first things I tell an employee is- that I will never tell you to rush a job. My name is on the busn. and my reputation is on the line. I also pay them by the hour-with encentives-like no call backs-you get a bonus. Also give them commission for selling product and extra services.

 

[hogjowl]

Vac, don't vac... IDGAS.

Who here has the credibility to make you change your mind on the subject?

Just do what you do and quit worrying about it.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Marty, this is what is refered to as a "thought provoking debate". I can see how this is lost on you.

 

[Ernie G]

Martys right, What ever floats your boat!!!!!!!!

 

[hogjowl]

Thought provoking debate? More like blathering vebal masturbation from a bunch of hacks who like to "hear" themselves "speak."

 

[Ernie G]

WHAT EVER!!!!!!!

 

[steve g]

here is a thought to those who teach the techs to prevac and don't allow the judgement call, how do you know they are really prevaccing?? every place I worked at as a cc tech the procedure was to always prevac first, however noone actually did it, no matter how bad the carpets needed it!!! if you check all the time to see if they are whats to say they don't bring the vac in make some noise so the customer sees without really doing it. I was a tech for years I know what really goes on, when noone is watching. to do a halfway decent job at prevaccing is gonna take a little bit. I would say its going to add at least 30 mins to the average home cleaning job.

honestly I truely didn't understand the real reasons for prevac until I became an O/O. I am the type of guy who if I don't understand a rule or think its unnecessary I rebel against it, however if I understand it, I am its biggest supporter. I think its important for your techs to truely understand why prevaccing is necessary, how it effects the long term look of the cleaning job, not just tell them to do it and hope they follow rules that have no effect on the look of the job RIGHT after its done.

 

[hogjowl]

Personally, I prevacuum every job. However, it's not so big a deal that a serious cleaner should waste time trying to justify his position, or try to win converts over to his way of thinking.

What's important is how the carpet looks upon finishing and how happy your customers are with you work.

 

[Ernie G]

Steve, your exactly right, and thats why I train my techs myself, and thats also why I have kept my busn. small. Another thing is I have rarely hired experienced help because it is hard to break bad habits.My standards are high, and i'm looking for people that think the same way,its a constant battle for sure.