LONG TERM DEPENDABILITY

[ruff]

I wanted to know your opinion from your hard earned experience:Which is the most dependable truck mount system. Especially those of you that had different systems and can compare.

I have had a few Hydra Master CDS machines that were pretty dependable but the current one is in a Ford dealership shop (extended warranty). And guess what: Ford says it the CDS that is causing the problem and Hydra-master says it is the Ford problem and I am canceling clients to the left and to the right.
Got me to thinking again that maybe the best way to go is a slide in, that way at least I know which machine is the problem. One more thing though, I am not mechanically inclined. Sure I can learn, but fixing machines is definitely not my talent. I was told that many of the slide ins required much more work and fixing like the older Pro-chem slide ins that were really complicated. On the other hand I was told by my dealer that the Pro-Chem Everest (A slide in) with the diesel engine is made much simpler is easy to maintain and is very dependable.

To sum it up:
1) which machine do you find to be the most dependable, day in and day out
2) Which kind of machine do you find to be relatively low maintenance and does not require a lot of mechanical skills.

Sorry for the long post but any thoughts and words of wisdom from your hard earned experienced will be highly appreciated. Thanks

 

[GRHeacock]

Any slide in is going to require more maintenance than any CDS.

Any slide in is going to weigh more than any CDS.

Any slide in is going to take up more room in the truck than any CDS.

Some slide ins are way more complicated than others. If you MUST have a slide in, I say go for the simplest, with the fewest bells and whistles that only add to the complications of running and maintenance.

Many slide ins require a heat source- propane or kerosene, which means added cost, plus you cannot get it just any gas station.

Having both myself, I say go for a CDS.

Gary

 

[The Great Oz]

The problem is the Ford. The question should be, "Which van has been more dependable, for those that have experience with more than one and can compare?"

The Prochem dealer is correct about the larger slide-in units being more dependable due to the more dependable powerplant, but it is also a very large and heavy unit that really is too big to put in a van and have any room or weight carrying capacity left.

There's always a trade-off.

 

[ruff]

Thanks for the answers guys, I appreciate it.
If buying a slide in like the Everest I will put it in a diesel truck like an Isuzu or a Mitsubishi. I see no reason to buy a Vortex etc, if I can buy a truck and add an Everest and still save $30,000 to $40,000. And since I find the CDS heat and power adequate, I do not need and earth scorching machine.

I totally agree that less bells and whistles the better with practically all machines.
Some of the slide ins like the Everest have heat exchangers and do not need propane, they capture exhaust heat etc..

The question is: From your experience, how simple to maintain and how dependable are some of the slide ins like the Everest or others that you used?
How much time a week/month do you spend maintaining?
How good do you need to be mechanically to do it?
How frequently do you have break downs or spend $$ to fix it?

 

[ruff]

Bryan and Gary, Thanks for your answers.
Bryan, good point. Which van do you find to work best with which machine.
I have had two Fords and had head gaskets problem with both and I maintain them religiously. No more Fords for me.
Any body else, what do you find to be best with your power take off machine?
Any more of you have Ford problems?

 

[Vincent Feehan]

We had a CDS in 1989, was junk from day 1,They told us the same thing as the van is the problem or the cds is.

Well my brother filed a lawsuit and won big time, loss of income 48days down, long story

We then went with a Prochem slide in 1991 800A , 9000 hours later, we retired it. I went through the whole TM, powder coat, you name it, spotless when done. We sold it for 6K .Very reliable tm Very I mean it

Then we bought a 2000 405 Prochem performer Cat. 6145 hours, not one day down, It has never been to the shop.


I do all my own repairs and Maint, You could have done at the shop, but I like to do it myself

We prefer slide in,s

You cant go wrong with the Everest from Prochem


Good luck

Vince Feehan

Just ready to retire our 405 for the 650

 

[GRHeacock]

There are lots of variables, some machines are well designed and made of top quality components.

Some are thrown together, and if they work at all, they are sold, and good luck to the buyer.

If I was buying a slide in today, I would get a simply designed machine like Duane Oxley makes or freeflow makes. If I was buying a CDS today, it would be a Butler. But that's just my opinion.

So... I say, look at many of them, see what fits your idea of a good machine, and whether you can do the repairs and maintenance on it yourself or must take to a supplier or mechanic.

Are there a lot of proprietary parts that are only available from the manufacturer, and when it breaks or needs replacement, is it readily available, or do you have to wait weeks for it?

Or can you go to a local auto parts store and get one off the shelf?

Gary

 

[John Watson]

I have had both slide in and shaft drives. If I were to buy a slide in I would like Gary look at the simpler machines like Master Blends El Diablo.

Other wise I would stay with the shaft drive. My present unit is a JEM out of Langly Canadia installed in a FORD. Installed at 120000 miles now have 139000 miles 2 years later.

It is my experience that the shaft drive is so much easier to maintain and alot less costly if you just keep your truck maintained. Oil changes every month.

 

[Matt King]

What specifically have your problems been with the van? There is no magic answer here.. It really depends on what you want. IMO the simplest slide in is an air cooled 2cyl w/LP or kero. That may or may not however be the best choice for your application. Of course you have trade offs with anything. Some guys want more vacuum which requires a larger powerplant. Some guys don't like extra fuels. Some swear by by HX systems and some curse them daily. As for direct drives, what Ford engine is it? 302,351,4.6 or 5.4? 2 of those make more low end torque than the others. This is preferable for a direct drive. The 4.6 and 5.4 are overhead cam engines and have known to be problematic for this particular application. You may have a daily driver last 300k miles but to run a pto all day might be a whole different story. In recent history Ford had OK'd the use of direct drives in their vans. I talked to a guy at Hydramaster a few years back and he told me Ford came to them and even designed the bracket for their purpose. All of the direct drive manufacturers are offering Ford installs now. I assumed all issues had been ironed out concerning warranty and engine related problems from the use of a pto. I have friends and family at the 2 largest Ford dealerships in our area. I went last week to look at the new vans to design the kit for my pto and visually the engines appear the same as they did in 1997. Maybe they've beefed them up internally. I know many of the issues concerning Ford stemmed from the use of the factory serpentine belt system. Apparently it put too much of a side load on the engine resulting in camshaft and main bearing problems. Is it true? I really don't know. I do know the water pump shaft was weak and they would break causing the fan to fly into the radiator. However, I'm told that issue has been resolved. I also believe Ford requires that there be a seperate serpentine belt system set up now to drive the pto instead of using the factory belt system. That is preferable anyway IMO.. The 6.0 GM engine has been a great platform for pto units. Excellent low end power, no overhead cams and it's a simple design stemming from the first 265 back in 1955. I'd probably just stick with that for now until the dust settles with the Ford/warranty issues.

 

[MicahR]

Kind of a toss up.

I've run old and newer versions of the CDS and old and new versions of slide in's

Couple of things remain constant with both. Technology has come a long way.

The CDS has changed a lot since 1989. You have a lot of pro's with that type of machine. Room savings is a big plus. Real estate is at a premium in a van and a CDS give you plenty. You dont' have two powerplants to maintain.
They are simple to run, especially if you have employees. Wear and tear on the engine really isn't an issue with a constant "highway" rpm, and they burn the same if not less than a comparable slide in. We normally will push a CDS in a chevy. Seems to be less problems with them and they are less expensive than putting them in a Ford.

Slide-ins have changed too. The Everest that your looking at has been greatly simplified from the 405 it replaced. In fact a lot of companies have gone with a more simplified design. Blueline's current lineup has a simplified heating system that eliminates the past problems with diverter valves and the like.

Man I could go on and on. The diesel alternative is very inviting. Although you arn't going to get a diesel in an Everest. You'll have to look at an Apex or a Bluewave Diesel. Pop one of those in a Dodge Sprinter and you'll have on sweet setup!

 

[RichardnTn]

Opt for a simple machine....A lot of the slide-ins have been affected by government regulations and the threat of law suits, the simplicity that was once there is now gone. Simple machine = some one like Cobb builds or if you go with a more complicated machine, go with a dealer like J. Pemberton that will take care of you if there are problems...
Richard R

 

[Jim Williams]

If I buy another slide in it will be an absolute bare bones model like a Judson. Just a motor, pump and blower. Mr Judson now has a HX unit I'm eager to see.

However,,,if I went with a direct drive it would have to be a Butler.

 

[Greenie]

"I see no reason to buy a Vortex etc, if I can buy a truck and add an Everest and still save $30,000 to $40,000. "

How do you save $30-40K?

And did you just compare a Prochem to A Vortex?

Just as a side note: those who have never had high heat will never miss high heat.

 

[steve r]

i dont miss it at all lol

 

[Kevin B]

If your gonna have a diesel truck, you might as well get the Apex, so you can just tap fuel lines. Or I think Hydramaster has a Maxx that is diesel as well.

The Everest/Performer line of TM from prochem has a long track record of success. I would buy the machine from whoever your best distributor in your area is. If its butler, then go with them. If its PC, then go with them. If its HM then go with them...you get the picture. Learn your machine, and learn how it works. Even the complicated ones aren't that complicated.

 

[The Great Oz]

John,
Ford built a mighty fine truck in (what year is yours?). 8)

Recently, three of our employees purchased Ford pickups for personal use. Two developed head gasket leaks, and Ford tried to deny warranty coverage on both. No CDS involved.

I'm hoping Mulally can bring some Boeing magic to Ford while there's still something left to save.

 

[ruff]

Had two Fords. a 1990 and a 2002. Both had 5.4 engines. Both had Head gasket problems. Maintained very well regularly. After 2 Fords, in my book, it is not just my bad luck. Statistically? Can happen.
Current one CDS rpm can not be adjusted to be very accurate or dependably.
Local dealer and Hydra master say that they have done everything on their side and that the engine vacuum is not consistent presumably due to the head gasket problems and the fact that two piston heads were warped.
Ford says that the engine is fine now, after their repair.
Who is right? I don't know. I am not sure what is the way to find or prove who is at fault. But I know I am paying for it dearly.
That is why I am getting tired of the situation where every one is blaming the other and I am stuck in between.

 

[Matt King]

Your 1990 had either a 302 or 351 as the new generation (4.6 and 5.4) didn't arrive until 1997. Ford headgasket problems aren't new. I had 2 blow on my 302 mustang. Why? They used 4 bolts per cylinder to secure the head. Chevy used 5. This makes for a better seal and helps to prevent head casting distortion. People talk about how the new Ford has better heat than the Chevy counterpart. That may boost temps at the wand a bit but doesn't help your motor. Now, looking at the 2007 van the other day I saw the front end was opened up quite a bit compared to previous models allowing for more airflow to cool the radiator. That's a good thing and will definitely help. I don't know if an electric throttle control module is available for a 2002 but if it is, get one. If not, I would try an electric solenoid. That's what the old Steam Genie pto's used and they always worked.