Lost an apartment complex to a competitor...

[B&BGaryC]

I had an apartment complex whose managers used to be carpet cleaners. They paid well but they expected a miracle every time. I did my best to give them a miracle. On their bad units they would pay extra and we would scrub with a floor machine, extract with boosted pre-spray, bonnet and use air movers to dry.

Occasionally they would call us back to do a unit over again. Almost all of their stuff was that light colored olefin berber that you see in rentals. They didn't like it if you could see where the furniture had been, but these were also section eight apartments and frequently very trashed.

We put everything we had into it. Anyway, eventually we stopped getting called, this was right around the time one of our restoration guys was having a phone battle with their California office to get paid on some water damage. I figured they got pissed that we wanted full payment for our voodoo science water damage and dropped us. I was nearby and saw the manager in the parking lot and pulled in. She was very friendly and upfront. I know her, and I she would tell me why we were dropped and who replaced us. I mentioned I hadn't been out in a while and asked what went wrong. She said she was going to call me back on another unit and instead just picked up the phone book and started interviewing carpet cleaners again. She gave my competitor a try and he did it the way they wanted (No RX-20, wand only) and he got it clean. They started using him and they have never had to call him back again. We were acid rinsing every single unit, I know this competitor relies heavily on Power-Point and Point-Blue as an extraction emulsifier on commercial work. Could it be the fact we were acid rinsing the nasties that was making the difference? We ALWAYS get told that this competitor is good, but we were better or the same. We NEVER get told he showed us up. That also could be because the customers of his we get are the unhappy ones, and the customers of ours we get don't tell us he is doing it now.

I asked her if she noticed any problems with resoiling and she said no, and she knew why I was asking, she said if he uses an alkaline rinse it doesn't cause a build-up. I thanked her very much, and told her most people wouldn't give that information. I said I had nothing really to say about this competitor other than he is one of the good ones. I usually hear I do a slightly better job, but if he is getting them cleaner by all means keep using him, he is very popular in this town for a reason, because he's good. I told her I appreciate the information because it will help me to become a better cleaner and make sure I don't lose the next one.

I know my tech hacked out a few of these units and if the last one was a simple clean but he just "Gave her what she paid for" it could have been the last straw.

I'm not sure what I'm asking. I guess I'm asking a few questions. Did my tech lose this account by not caring about a picky apartment manager that asks for miracles, did we lose this account because we did our best and it wasn't good enough, or did we lose this account because there was some unpleasantness between our offices about collection of a water damage restoration check?

 

[Royal Man]

That's the trouble with apartment complexes. They come and go and usually it's out of your control. Usually its because an other cleaner is a nickle cheaper. They get a new apartment manager and they bring in the cleaner they are familiar with or the company gets a new corporate bean counter.

It really could be for any reason or even no reason at all.

Don't waste your time worrying about it.

Just move on.

 

[joey895]

It was probably all of the above but I can tell you don't bother on the acid rinses on apartments. Never mind the fact I'm not convinced they resoil any less than a quality emulsifier but the fact that apartment managers don't care if it resoils quickly, they know when the people move out it's likely to be very dirty no matter what you used to rinse it because of the tenants.

Personally I use an acid side rinse that has some cleaning ability when I'm concerned about leaving a soft hand (high end homes that aren't very dirty) or on some upholstery. All commercial and apartments get rinsed with dry slurry mixed at varying strengths depending on soiling conditions. Most jobs are mixed at about half strength but I'll bump it up on the real nasties.

 

[idreadnought]

I love losing a big account. It gets my head in the game and I usually will replace it with an account or accounts that are twice the volume. I have lost a few accounts that looking back were not good accounts at all. I replaced them with great accounts. These people seem like real PIAs . Go get a complex that will treat you better for better prices. Keep your head in the game and take good care of those that take care of you. And do yourself a favor and quit acid rinsing. Most modern alkaline cleaners nowadays won't leave a resoling residue anyways.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Reality check....maybe you're not good as good as you think.
Maybe all those unneeded and additional time consuming steps/chems aren't needed and just add to cost of the invoice
it's an olie berber for crying out loud...they're EASY

Sounds to me like a simple case of someone able to clean them "just as well" or better than you for le$$.
"maybe" cause he learned how to clean on his own..... unencumbered by a head full of needless horsechit he was taught in some gUrooz class....


..L.T.A.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Oh my. Larry read my mind.

Acid rinse is a chemical salesman's friend. It's used to follow too much of something else.

I'm sure there are several others here like me who could clean those units in the dark if we had too. I'm sure Larry could.

 

[dday]

...Maybe all those unneeded and additional time consuming steps/chems aren't needed and just add to cost of the invoice it's an olie berber for crying out loud...they're EASY

Sounds to me like a simple case of someone able to clean them "just as well" or better than you for le$$.
"maybe" cause he learned how to clean on his own..... unencumbered by a head full of needless horsechit he was taught in some gUrooz class....


..L.T.A.

Oh my. Larry read my mind.

Acid rinse is a chemical salesman's friend. It's used to follow too much of something else.

I'm sure there are several others here like me who could clean those units in the dark if we had too. I'm sure Larry could.

So many posts on these boards, but so few based upon common sense and real world experience - and here in one thread I have the pleasure of reading two in a row!

 

[B&BGaryC]

Making a 5 year old section 8 Berber look new enough to not be able to see where the furniture was even though it is ground down and never vacuumed is easy? I thought making them look remarkably better was easy, but not restoring them. I do need to stop using weak cleaning solutions and get some real tlc for rentals. I always used zone perfect and end zone and if they are bad add boost all and an ounce of citra boost. When you do that you are working really hard to get the crap out of the carpet. In hind sight it was really stupid to treat a carpet NOBODY cares about carefully. I should have just nuked them and collected my check, but I have this chip on my shoulder that I should do it the "right" way. Yes, they were a PITA but they paid 24 cents a sq. Ft. For the regular to dirty ones, and 34 cents a sq ft for the rat nasties. Compare that to the difficulty I encounter trying to charge 19 or 20 cents a sq. Ft having to compete with guys who charge 12 to 14 around here.
they were nice people too. They invited me to jam with them, but I got a weird vibe from the chick whenever her husband wasn't around and figured I shouldn't socialize with them.

And yes, they were a pain. I believe they even wanted to know about what rinse I used and the Ph of my cleaner.

 

[Dolly Llama]

In hind sight it was really stupid to treat a carpet NOBODY cares about carefully.

Why do you ASSume the other guy doesn't, Gary?

maybe he's discovered all that's needed is a hi-octane pre-spray and thorough flush/rinse extract to do just as good a job (that won't resoil any more or less quicker) than what the gUrooz teach you to dump on a rag

..L.T.A.

 

[Bob Savage]

Gary,

Apartment complexs usually don't show any loyalty to their vendors.

Don’t take it personally. Move on knowing that your work reflects a top notch work ethic. :!:

 

[Bee Busy]

I've been in the apt complex game for a long time. You can't take this personally but they could care less about you, make all kinds of excuses (which are lies), will stab you in the back, and will drop you for another guy if he's a dollar cheaper, then drop that guy for the next guy that's a dollar cheaper. And it looks like it's getting worse with house cleaners becoming rug suckers and "water damage specialists". Sounds encouraging huh? :mrgreen:

 

[tim]

I will say that you could improve your performance on Olefin with better chems. Zone perfect and Endzone with Citrus and even oxy is what I would use for an average residential. On Olefin ph isnt a factor so I use Extreme Clean from CTI. Boost it with Energy and rinse with a hot rinse like Slurry or White Lightning. If it is cut loop, use a CRB on bad areas, if it is Berber, skip it. If the fibers are scratched or crushed you wont fix that, but I promise you the chems I suggest will blow what youre using away on Olefin.

 

[KevinD]

Get some kick ass prespray and emulsifier for the nastys and a scrubber if need be and save

the acid rinses for the never walked on formal living rooms.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I like acid rinses for special care fabrics to help stabilze dyes and keep natual fibers from browning.

Carpet? We would only use it on carpet if there a pre-existing residue problem.

I think a good emulisifier would leave a cleaner, brighter appearance than an acid rinse.

However, I don't think that's why they switched companies.

Anyway, eventually we stopped getting called, this was right around the time one of our restoration guys was having a phone battle with their California office to get paid on some water damage.

More than likely they didn't like paying standard WDR rates for apartment work. I get plenty of calls about apts, some needing immediate attention with multiple units wet.

They wants us out ASAP......until I give them a rough estimate, then they drop off like a hot potato.

I would bet they were instructed by corporate to find another company to do their cleaning and the manager didn't have the heart to tell you.

 

[bob vawter]

but I got a weird vibe from the chick whenever her husband wasn't around and figured I shouldn't socialize with them.

OPP there it is.........

and prolly vice-versa....... !gotcha!


ya right...like i was the only one here thinkin' that....... :roll:

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Perhaps a day or two off from the job to relax and reflect on how to be emotionally detached from your commercial customers. Pre-scrub them, high ph detergents, acid rinses, high heat, bonnets, it's all monkey motion. This is lowest of all the carpet cleaning work in any neck of the woods. The clients are the worst you could ever do business with and your competition is no better. Take some time off, distract yourself with some relaxing activity and shake it off.

 

[bob vawter]

'bout ten years ago...i lost my BIGGEST account($60,000.00/yr) because.......................
i wouldn't go to a Bible study with the owner

 

[B&BGaryC]

but I got a weird vibe from the chick whenever her husband wasn't around and figured I shouldn't socialize with them.

OPP there it is.........

and prolly vice-versa....... !gotcha!


ya right...like i was the only one here thinkin' that....... :roll:

My tech said he got a weird vibe from them too. In fact when I told him they invited me to jam he said, "Watch, you show up and it turns out to be a key party."

 

[B&BGaryC]

[/color]

I like acid rinses for special care fabrics to help stabilze dyes and keep natual fibers from browning.

Carpet? We would only use it on carpet if there a pre-existing residue problem.

I think a good emulisifier would leave a cleaner, brighter appearance than an acid rinse.

The reason why I am such a stickler for acid rinses is residue. A lot of cleaners in this town leave a ton behind. I had a restaurant that I hit with everything I had, as did every other low ball cleaner in town until they decided to call me, and it never seemed to work until I acid rinsed the snot out of it. It came a little bit cleaner, but then next time I used a moderate cleaner and detergent rinse it brought it back to its proper color.

 

[Burtz]

you could be a hack and just don't know it

 

[bob vawter]

you could be a hack and just don't know it

ya right...like i was the only one here thinkin' that....... :roll:

 

[Royal Man]

you could be a hack and just don't know it

Could be the opposite.

For apartments being hack can be a resume enhancer.

 

[Steve Toburen]

Gary,

Apartment complexs usually don't show any loyalty to their vendors.

Don’t take it personally. Move on knowing that your work reflects a top notch work ethic. :!:

Exactly.

Steve Toburen
www.SFS.JonDon.com

PS Gary, the above just shows the need to have a regular, ongoing commercial sales program where you contact "X" number of new prospects each week. Stuff happens and you just need to keep moving forward.

 

[ACE]

I have lost complexes becuse of a WDR bill and other billing issues several times. I have never lost a compex due to workmanship and I am not above hacking them out sometimes.

 

[Dolly Llama]

The reason why I am such a stickler for acid rinses is residue.

and what makes you think acid side ph has ANYTHING to do with rinse ability ??
what makes you think some acid rinses don't actually CONTRIBUTE to residue/resoil??

mist some citric acid on a carpet, feel it the next day and tell me how residue free it is


neutralizing PH has nothing to do with residue , cause high ph in and of it's self has NOTHING to do with residue/resoil



..L.T.A.

 

[B&BGaryC]

Then why did acid rinsing the carpet and cleaning it work better than hitting it with flex and powerpoint? I am just going off of what I have been taught and how I have observed it to work. I know for a fact citric acid would be a terrible rinse agent and would contribute to resoiling. However, acid rinses have worked for me in the past.

 

[Dmreed4311]

Do not believe any thing an apartment manager tells you, Lying is part of their job.
You probably lost the account because the other company gave something to the manager like a bottle of wine or sports tickets. Happens all the time the manager switches to another vendor because of kickbacks.
Part of the business, do not take it personally.

 

[Bob Savage]

Then why did acid rinsing the carpet and cleaning it work better than hitting it with flex and powerpoint? I am just going off of what I have been taught and how I have observed it to work. I know for a fact citric acid would be a terrible rinse agent and would contribute to resoiling. However, acid rinses have worked for me in the past.

Did you clean the same apartment when you compared the acid rinse results with the emulisifier results?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Then why did acid rinsing the carpet and cleaning it work better than hitting it with flex and powerpoint? I am just going off of what I have been taught and how I have observed it to work. I know for a fact citric acid would be a terrible rinse agent and would contribute to resoiling. However, acid rinses have worked for me in the past.

Flex used to be a sledgehammer .
They changed it some years ago.
It's nowhere near the wicked potion it used to be


as far as what you were "taught" , much of it doesn't add up ('cept to juice $alesmen)
Case in point, years ago while at a seminar , we were told not to use the same sprayer or sprayer jug for protectant due to possible contamination ruining the protectant ...that makes sense to me.
He stressed how just a "couple drops" of acid rinse could spoil a gal of protectant .
This was a Prochem heavy hitter and at the time PC was pushing the max clean min residue "system"
which included acid rinse and/or misting cleaned carpet w/acid

I had to ask, well then Sparky, if just a "minuscule" amount of acid ruins the effect of protectant, why in the hell are you telling us to acid treat the carpet BEFORE protectant ??

he didn't have a good answer...at least one that added up to what he just told us an hour before about contamination





as far as observations , you said this;

never seemed to work until I acid rinsed the snot out of it. It came a little bit cleaner, but then next time I used a moderate cleaner and detergent rinse it brought it back to its proper color.

sounds to me like the "thorough" flush/rinse got much of the years of poor cleaning technique gunk out.(if it was cleaned/maintained right at all)
The second time you cleaned "right" and "brought it back to life"

if acid works for you..have at it
But you might want to check the MSDS, cause most of them use citric acid



..L.T.A.

 

[GCP]

you gave your all. evaluate what could have been done better and do it next time, keep pushing forward though and remember those apartment, as stated by others (on mikey's) change management and employees often as well as cross reference other cleaning services for best price other than quality work.