Low heat problem...

[White-Magic rebuilder]

...just got my WhiteMagic 1900 slide-in out of the shop. I put it in due to low heat. the tech saw a crack in the exhaust manifold. He blamed it on the Kunkle and i had it replaced. But the heat is the same. It usually stays at 260 on the temp gauge and stays about 225 atw. But now it still drops to 180 at the mach and stays at 165 atw. I checked everything in the repair man. including solenoid,fluids and the bypass pod. It all seems to be working fine. Any ideas?
Thanks,Rob.

 

[Guest]

thermostat in the van going bad?

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

thermostat in the van going bad?

Let's not forget it is a slide-in not a pto...
Thanks anyway,Rob.

 

[Guest]

Doh missed that fine point above.

 

[R W]

I can only think of bypassing water, like the ProChem Performer does (when the bypass needle wears out and won't seat), or the exhaust diverter is not operating properly ( I had the selinoid rod fall loose last week on the Genesis, and would only heat to about 160)

I don't know what system your machine has.

 

[The Magician]

how did you correct the overheating problem? remember slide ins do have thermostat's.


Now you see it....but Where?

 

[Guest]

1. How many hours on machine?
2.could be calcium build up on coils, or soap build up on coils.
3. soot build up on primary exchanger
4.look for small exhaust leak going from manifold to HX. A little pinhole can cause temp drop of 20 to 50 degrees.
5. Running bigger jets than before can cause a drop in heat
6. engine not running at full rpm
7.blower hx system partially blocked
8.check all filters in the hose lines including the ones at the wand . this can cause temp drop as well.

 

[R W]

Hi, Jimmy the magician......

 

[The Magician]

Hi RW, Saw you and Col. in Austintown last week. How you been?

Rod, I agree with RW either by-passing or diverter not working.

Making dirt disapear......The HWE way.

 

[R W]

Hey, Jimmy....if you see me in a drive, stop by. If you had your truck lettered, I'd be able to recognize you.

How's the day job?? Were you at the Firemans Pancake Breakfast last week??

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

This machine has never had an overheating problem. It was the tragic Triton LS.
1000 hrs on the unit.
Exhaust manifold was replaced could be leaking somewhere. I'll check that.
Rob.

 

[Guest]

Found in my experience sometimes new items could come defective.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Replaced check valve and no change. I have narrowed the problem. It is showing a constant water pressure on the gauge. WMagic is supposed to zero out after start but this unit is showing constant water pressure... :x
Rob.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

are these the same guys that fix your trition?

Unfortunately...yes...

 

[Greenie]

"the tech saw a crack in the exhaust manifold. He blamed it on the Kunkle"

OMG, please tell me you are kidding.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

"the tech saw a crack in the exhaust manifold. He blamed it on the Kunkle"

OMG, please tell me you are kidding.

I wish I was kidding...everything is the Kunkles fault...he tried again today and said it is running normal but I say a 30-40 degree temperature LOSS is not normal...so I'm gonna descale it tomorrow. If anyone has any other ideas please let me know!
Rob.

 

[Guest]

Descale it!

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

I descaled the unit It is not hotter but I'm getting HOTTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying to troubleshoot the unit again today and made a remarkable find. The heat STAYS the same with or without exhaust heat exchanger engaged. So the problem is in the exhaust heat exchanger or the divert-err valve. The valve sounds like it is working but I'm not sure. I touched the exhaust heat exchanger cover and it is smoking hot. Could be clogged I'm not sure. Anyhow I'm gonna tear into it further. Just irks me I don't want to spend time repairing the unit. I would rather pay them but I'm left with no choice...500.00 later...

Rob.

 

[Jim Martin]

hell everyone else is shooting in the dark on this one so here goes mine

Does it have a hi temp valve on it.and is your waste tank filling up faster then normal

If you answered yes to both the above questions then the hi temp control valve may be stuck and not working the way it should........so it is by passing and dumping into the tank..

this will not allow it to get as hot

 

[Greenie]

If I paid you, the POS WhiteMagic dealer $500 to fix my POS WM TM, and it was still the same, you'd be fixin it for free or wishing you had got it right the first time, it's a truckmount not the space shuttle.

 

[The Magician]

Manually open and close the diverter valve. Is it free. Then put the switch diverter on does the rod open and close.(longer or shorter rod) Either froze up or a bad electrical switch.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

Thanks Jim but it does not bypass into the waste tank. It goes back to the fresh water tank.

Greenie, I sent a smokin' letter to the owner!

Magician, the divert-er valve seems to work fine. I took the exhaust off and looked in. It does not close all the way but it does close 95% of the way. Actuator pod works fine. But I took off the plug on the bottom of the exhaust heat exchanger and water came out. So my theory is that it has coils inside that might be cracked therefore leaking out around the coils and cooling off the water. But I'm not sure if it has coils inside, anyone know???

Thanks,Rob.

 

[Guest]

ROB IF IT IS CLOSING 95 PERCENT YOU ARE LOSING 5 PERCENT. DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I POSTED ABOVE.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

ROB IF IT IS CLOSING 95 PERCENT YOU ARE LOSING 5 PERCENT. DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I POSTED ABOVE.

OK, good point Nick. Now would you happen to know if the the heat exchanger has brass water coils inside that should not leak water?
Thanks again,Rob.

 

[Guest]

If memory serves , the add for the WM units were SS coils.

Are you losing water pressure? IF you are then you may have a leak.
IS the machine shooting water out of the exhaust port? if it is it could be a leak or condensation.

Look to see if the HX sits funny to keep it from draining out condensation. If you have condinsation build up part of the coil may be submersed in water.

MY guess is soot on coils. If you can open the exchanger do so and clean coils if not, try buying some type of spray that will break down carbon soot. spray it the best you can on to the coils from the EXDiverter. Let sit overnight then run machine. do that for a week and you may get enough soot off the coils to bring your heat up.

 

[White-Magic rebuilder]

If memory serves , the add for the WM units were SS coils.

Are you losing water pressure? IF you are then you may have a leak.
IS the machine shooting water out of the exhaust port? if it is it could be a leak or condensation.

Look to see if the HX sits funny to keep it from draining out condensation. If you have condinsation build up part of the coil may be submersed in water.

MY guess is soot on coils. If you can open the exchanger do so and clean coils if not, try buying some type of spray that will break down carbon soot. spray it the best you can on to the coils from the exchanger. Let sit overnight then run machine. do that for a week and you may get enough soot off the coils to bring your heat up.

Thanks, there is no water leak or exhaust water blowby. Now it probably is condensation. Perhaps that is why they put a drain plug on the bottom of their exchanger to get the extra water out.
There is no way to open it unfortunately, so I can't tell if it is dirty. But I do know that the water does not seem to be heating properly.
Last but not least WM claims that no divert-er valve closes all the way. But I like what you say. And how do I know that when cranked up that the spring could be weak allowing more exhaust blowby???

Thanks Nick,Rob.

PS:Nick excuse my ignorance but how does soot lower the temp a lot?

 

[minuteman]

Where do I start? The tech saw a crack in the exhaust manifold. He blamed it on the Kunkle, ... What a dumb a$$!!!

The Exhaust manifold had a crack, OVER HEATED THE ENGINE (just a guess, but if it runs who cares right)- REPLACED - So the deverter was RESET by the tech at the shop and you found it dose not close all the way - RESET THE ROD TO CLOSE IT ALL THE WAY.

The Exhaust HX has a thermostat probe - RIGHT - and a DIAL INDICATOR TO SET THE TEMP - RIGHT - NOW Turn the key to on (DO NOT START - JUST ON ) and turn the TEMP DIAL till you here a "click" if you do not here a "click" the Exhaust manifold deverter is not working because that dial theromstat is out and it controls the deverter. If you have to replace it , it is a complete unit with prob.

Next the Exhaust HX would have water running out of the Exhaust pipes if it had a crack in it at all, so no water no problum, another way to check it is to pressure test with air, DISCONNECT THE WATER LINES AND RECONNECT WITH AIR ON ONE AND PLUG THE OTHER - IF CRACKED YOU WILL HERE THE LEAK. MOST Exhaust HX are SS throughout. If you find a leak here do not read on.

Now lets go to your pressure regulator, you said it is supposed to zero after start which means that it is set up like a pressure washer , your by-pass is not working right, it is stuck and holding the pressure in the system, just below the knob you turn to set the pressure is a ball bearing and a spring check it for debri, if that dose not fix it replce the whole thing coast $50 at envirospec.com.

Good luck, Greg

 

[Guest]

Soot on coils or on any type of exchanger in time will act as an insulator. Does not let as much heat transfer to the water.

 

[Matt King]

I don't think it's soot. What Nick and the rest have suggested is entirely true but you said you went from 260atm to 180atm. That's a pretty large gap to fill there to just be carbon on the coils. I also assume this problem came on pretty quick otherwise you would have noticed a slight decrease in temperature over an extended period of time. Same with the Descale. I think your problem is of a mechanical nature. How is your engine coolant in the motor? You may have an air lock in you Liquid HX'er which is not letting coolant flow over those coils properly. In that case, you completely lose your base temperature and are relying on your exhaust exchanger only to heat the water. This would make perfect sense and explain the large gap in your temperature drop.

 

[The Magician]

Follow Minuteman advice. Has to be that or a sensor. Remember it has a 30 deg drop in heat.