Need your thoughts on a new tech....

[Kellie Hiler]

It's important to keep what I write in context, I try to be deliberate with my wording. My comment was not an accusation against you personally, it was meant an indictment on what drug testing has become. It's unnecessarily intrusive in too many instances.

It's easy enough to spot a person on drugs by looking in their eyes and observing behavior. Police do it all the time. And as a business person you have no choice but to keep an eye out for it regardless of who is hired.

We still don't know what violations this person was guilty of, only that there are some. Today it's rather easy to have a criminal record with say the police being able to apply charges based on mind-reading as in the case of intent to sell or distribute tacked on to any drug possession charge if the police officer decides to for reasons of his/her own. He/she could have been having a bad day for all that is known.

I gather that no matter who you decide to hire you'll be demanding drug testing?

From what she told me, his offense was selling cocaine. That is what he told her he was doing. He said he was selling large amounts.
I absolutely do a drug screen before hiring anyone. Whether they look or act suspicious or not. That is my procedure. Most companies do, I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Kellie Hiler]

FYI...

I know you are not meeting him at this point, but for future reference certain questions are illegal, so be careful what you plan to ask

Also, it is illegal to ask for a copy of drivers license or take photos of people during the interview process. You may ask de that only after offer had been made and accepted.

You are opening yourself up to a descriminatuon lawsuit if you do so. (Descriminatuon based on looks, age since you have their birthday on license)

A warning to all who are thinking about or have done this. Don't do it.

When did it become illegal to ask someone about their record during the interview process? Most places have that question on their job applications. I believe Obama is working on removing that box but I don't think it has happened yet.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Arguing really hardens you in your position. And the other person in theirs...

How dare you argue with my position that debate refines ideas!! Why I .....

Ooops...LOL

In the spirit of debate "refining ideas" (not necessarily changing minds), Rick's post shows that my brief, poetically brief comment didn't explain what I meant. While I'd like to hope I'm an open minded type, I tend to "refine my ideas" through debate by learning what positions I have that need to be strengthened, and the weaknesses of my opponent. Thus Rick is right that my "refining" is a nice way of saying "hardening". And if you feel you have a strong and important position, there surely is nothing wrong with being firm in that position.

That said...sometimes the original idea doesn't need "refined", it instead does need to be altered when incontrovertable facts arise. I hope to have the maturity and perspective to do that in my life, though I have not always been able to do so easily thus far.

 

[rick imby]

Rick, I have a record. And I would hire someone who has a record as long as they are non violent, non sexual and non theft related. Although if someone has a theft from a drug problem and has a proven track record of being clean for quite some time, I am willing to give them a chance. But I let them know that I will do random testing on them, because unfortunately, people can and sometimes do relapse. I offer them a lot of support and ask them to always be honest with me. I've only been screwed over once. I am a very forgiving and understanding person which is why I was willing to consider this guy in the first place.

Talking about my Records was my attempt at humor... I guess the conservatives call that deflecting....

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Talking about my Records was my attempt at humor... I guess the conservatives call that deflecting....

Haha! Ok ya got me...I understood the Coke and Pepsi reference and Bloomberg going after you (good one by the way!), but the records (albums) went right over my head even though I am old enough to know what they are!
Not gonna lie I felt a little defensive.

 

[rjwood]

I have found debates normally harden each person in their own belief.
Normally they are only listening to your thoughts to find something else to disagree with.

Arguing really hardens you in your position. And the other person in theirs...

They are not mature people then, and may be best left alone to grow up.

 

[rjwood]

How dare you argue with my position that debate refines ideas!! Why I .....

Ooops...LOL

In the spirit of debate "refining ideas" (not necessarily changing minds), Rick's post shows that my brief, poetically brief comment didn't explain what I meant. While I'd like to hope I'm an open minded type, I tend to "refine my ideas" through debate by learning what positions I have that need to be strengthened, and the weaknesses of my opponent. Thus Rick is right that my "refining" is a nice way of saying "hardening". And if you feel you have a strong and important position, there surely is nothing wrong with being firm in that position.

That said...sometimes the original idea doesn't need "refined", it instead does need to be altered when incontrovertable facts arise. I hope to have the maturity and perspective to do that in my life, though I have not always been able to do so easily thus far.

Being right or convincing others they are wrong is the wrong reason to debate. Debating is just a conversation where conflicts in thought or events are ironed out through dialogue.

Our legal system is a system of controlled debate where the two sides present evidence and then debate the meaning and weight of the evidence. Jurors listening to the arguments (debate) then go debate (argue) how it adds up and present a decision.

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Goodness. How did this thread turn into a debate on debates?! Lol!

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Sorry Kellie, my fault for derailing it

Rick and Bob Wood are bright guys, and its easy to get into a conversation with such people.

Back to the topic:

Don't follow your heart when hiring. The more that's been discussed here, the more it looks like there are better candidates somewhere out there.

 

[rick imby]

They are not mature people then, and may be best left alone to grow up.

I disagree!!!!

hahahaha

Being right or convincing others they are wrong is the wrong reason to debate. Debating is just a conversation where conflicts in thought or events are ironed out through dialogue.

Great thought Bob but I don't think many conversations modify (or iron out) anyone's beliefs.

 

[rjwood]

Which is why it's best to leave belief out of debates. Weight of evidence rather than inclination or intuition is the best mindset for debating, or any conversation for that matter.

Belief and believing evidence are two very different things.

Thank you for the compliment.

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Sorry Kellie, my fault for derailing it

Rick and Bob Wood are bright guys, and its easy to get into a conversation with such people.

Back to the topic:

Don't follow your heart when hiring. The more that's been discussed here, the more it looks like there are better candidates somewhere out there.

Lol! No Jim, you did not derail my thread at all....
What started out as me asking for opinions about hiring a specific person became a thread about whether it is okay to drug test employees and whether it's okay to have dope smokers work for me. Which is fine I know all too well how threads go from one subject to others, he'll I do it myself!
I love a good debate, and the issue has been resolved anyway. I just thought it was funny debating about debates.

 

[rjwood]

Sorry Kellie, my fault for derailing it

Rick and Bob Wood are bright guys, and its easy to get into a conversation with such people.

Back to the topic:

Don't follow your heart when hiring. The more that's been discussed here, the more it looks like there are better candidates somewhere out there.

Thank you, but you're no slouch either.

There are a lot of smart people on this forum.

 

[rjwood]

Lol! No Jim, you did not derail my thread at all....
What started out as me asking for opinions about hiring a specific person became a thread about whether it is okay to drug test employees and whether it's okay to have dope smokers work for me. Which is fine I know all too well how threads go from one subject to others, he'll I do it myself!
I love a good debate, and the issue has been resolved anyway. I just thought it was funny debating about debates.

Your ideas and personal events along with your willingness to present them and your flexibility are noteworthy.

Well done!

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Thank you....now off to work I must go. Got a big 3 level whole house clean to go do. At least it warmed up....whew!

 

[Jim Pemberton]

There are a lot of smart people on this forum.

There surely are.... on that we will agree

 

[Kellie Hiler]

And by warmed up...i mean it is a whole 25 degrees...woohoo!

 

[PrimaDonna]

When did it become illegal to ask someone about their record during the interview process? Most places have that question on their job applications. I believe Obama is working on removing that box but I don't think it has happened yet.

You are allowed to ask if they've ever been convicted of a crime, not if they've been arrested.

Federal and state laws vary, so it's a good idea to check. While Federal may allow the question, state may not or vice versa.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_arrest_conviction.cfm

Some states prohibit employers from asking about arrest records, at least if the arrest is no longer pending. Some states allow employers to ask about convictions only if they relate directly to the job, or require employers who consider convictions to take particular facts into account, such as how serious the crime was and whether the applicant has participated in any rehabilitation efforts.


http://hirenetwork.org/content/are-employers-permitted-ask-applicants-about-arrests-job-applications

 

[Kellie Hiler]

I know that here in Colorado they can ask you about any felonies on the application. They can then decide whether they want to even consider you. Once they decide yes or no, they can then run your record. Your record will always show any arrests, what they were for and what the outcomes were.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Here and maybe there too, you can search public court records. We regularly check a potential hire to see if they show up in the county records. It won't help if the have an out of state record.

 

[Kellie Hiler]

Here and maybe there too, you can search public court records. We regularly check a potential hire to see if they show up in the county records. It won't help if the have an out of state record.

Yeah, and this guy is from out of state. I already let her know that I just can't do it, she completely understood.

 

[SamIam]

Ok find an 18-20 year old first job, no record, lives at home.Hopefully goes to your church.

Start him part time pick him up drop him off. Trial basis, on call, when you have work. Start at minimum wage and if he sticks give raises. Bonuses and tips.

I would not let him move in, I would not want an employee living with me if he didn't work out. To many things can go wrong. A first job for a young man he will be greatful.

 

[SamIam]

Personally I prefer them not to have experience to many bad habits.

 

[SamIam]

Start them off vacuuming and backing up hose. Dropping fans, blocking and chipping furniture. Teach them pack everything up. Eventually they'll be able to setup pre spray using a 10 crb is super east to.

Show them wall gaurds go down first on the way in with the vacuum. Just teach them everything you do, and give them opportunity to do it. You'll pull the wand out of their hands a lot but eventually they'll get it.

 

[Kellie Hiler]

I've trained guys before, and that is how I do it. However, for the first couple of days I just have them glued to my side, and I explain everything I am doing and why. During travel time, I get to know them and explain things and let them ask questions. Once I see that they are capable of actually thinking for themselves and remembering things I let them do the full set up by themselves while I deal with the customer. And then check to make sure they didn't miss any steps. One of my main tests for them is their logical thinking. If I see that they can't seem to be able figure out how to properly stage even after I've trained them and or they can't seem to anticipate where I am going and what my pattern is, I will give them the wand and let them pull their own hoses. That usually helps them figure out how they need to be staged. If it doesn't, then I start thinking I've got a dud on my hands...lol.
Once they've got the process down good and I know they are being careful with the equipment and the customers homes I start teaching them the products, and the different soil types and carpet types. I also have them read the IICRC book and quiz them on it. Once I feel confident that they know enough I start letting them do the walk throughs with the customer, with me just tagging along. I only start that process with long time customers where I know there are no issues, but it helps build their confidence.
Then I teach them the ins and outs of the machine. Eventually, I just let them do every job by themselves with me just helping and watching. Once I know that they can handle any situation with knowledge and confidence I feel comfortable enough to send them on their own, but I not only call the customer afterwards but will do a follow up walk through and address any issues they may have missed until I know I no longer need to. It takes a long time before I let them on their own.