New Heat Exchanger Blew Out

[minuteman]

This is a 14 month old Liquid HX from Genesis, in other words Brand New, it runs off the engine radiator,

this blew out early Tuesday Morn. on a job and was blowing water out through the radiator over flow line like a fire hose, only had one room left to do on a Bar - Restaurant . Went back to the office pulled it out and found a split coil, called Genesis-Power Clean and of coarse its 2 months out of warranty and they tell me this will only happen in "cold" or "frez" weather. I'm in L.A. California "what cold" ?!!! Moral of the story "CHECK YOUR WARRANTY" !! $300.00 and 3 days all due to bad craftsmanship!!!![/img][/url]

 

[Guest]

14 months and you still expect it to be under warranty?

 

[minuteman]

Yes! This handles 260 degree temps and 3000 psi and should do it for at least 5 years, its completely sealed off.

 

[Guest]

Powerclean warrantys the water exchange for 2 years? If they do contact them directly.

 

[minuteman]

Sure they do!!! I called them yesterday and a New coil for the right side coast me $300.00. I'm waiting for FedEx right now.

 

[Guest]

Posted on powerclean website.

 

[minuteman]

Thank You Mr Smith!

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Twenty minutes and we'd have been cleaning again!

That's an easy fix, tubing cutter, flare tool, clean up the ends and slide on a flare union. The fix will last as long as the tubing. Parts about $10 at NAPA or Lowes.

 

[John Watson]

I am not familiar with your unit. Does it have 2 separate coils/HE??

The reason asking is if not caused by freezing and a newer machine you might have some sort of electrolysis going on in your machine and need to add zinc anodes. Have the all coils double checked to make sure not eaten away pin holes compared to an expansion split. If it is an expansion split ( swollen area) you did get it cold enough to freeze.

20 plus years ago i bought a prochem 100A that had split coils and I welded them back up using copper wire and a torch. (I used to thaw frozen pipes and make on site repairs when working at a welding/machine shop) Repairs lasted till person I sold the unit to had it freeze up again and this time he replaced the coils.

 

[minuteman]

Lee I was going to try that, but the coil broke for no apparent reason other than it is weak from the get go, about 6 months ago I had to fix the other side which broke at the fitting at the very top on the outside of the sealed coil, just a slight split but a leak none the less. Ryan from Power Clean walked me through that one over the phone. I think if I where to do that it would just blow again . Thanks

 

[minuteman]

Well John I'll check for electrolysis, if I find it where do you pick up the Zinc and do you add it to the cooling system or what?

 

[minuteman]

John i did a google search and I'm going to put in the zinc anodes just to make sure this dose not happen again. Thanks for the tip!!

 

[minuteman]

For all of you that like me did not know what John was telling me look here.http://www.titanindia.com/zinc alloy sacrificial cathodic protection anodes.htm

 

[minuteman]

This one is betterhttp://www.harboranodes.com/heat_exchanger_condenser_anodes.html

 

[minuteman]

And this is the best,http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/23.htm

 

[floorguy]

is that copper i see??? 3000psi ??? uh huh, i don't think so...they must have figured out a way to keep it from busting for the year warranty and then it goes...

most copper is not rated that high and with the added temps would weaken it.

 

[JohnnyV]

Coppers cheaper easier to work with. I can't believe a high dollar machine like that didn't use Stainless.

 

[minuteman]

Well floor guy go check it outhttp://www.carpet-cleaning-equipment.net/powerclean_genesis.shtml and Johnny V, I agree!

 

[Matt King]

Those are 3000psi coils. The same as used on the Cleanco PTO. Go to their website and download the manual for a Compact pto and look for yourself. That's kind of a freak thing to see it just snap in two like that. I can see a split or a pinhole but that's a pretty clean break. You don't run any Oxygen-S.P. through the machine do you? That eats away at the copper. I quit using that stuff because of that reason. I saw first hand what it would do inside a HX system. Stainless coils have poor heat transfer for liquid to liquid otherwise they'd be nice to use... Copper ain't cheap anymore either. If I were you I'd put the new coil in and fix the old one to have for a back up.

 

[floorguy]

OK so i went and read it....said

Stainless steel exhaust system
Stainless steel exhaust heat exchange system


Heat exchangers - 2 years

also said warranty is 2 yrs....now maybe this is from just this place...where did you buy it from??

humm both have the same warranty's etc...id be pissed calling and pitching a fit at someone to fix this...

 

[Guest]

I can make you a coil out of stainless for about 120.00 plus shipping.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Minuteman;

Our company has serviced many Little Giant heaters over the past few years.

They have a copper coil that has a similar coil construction.

I have never seen a shearing failure like the one in your picture.

When the LG coils fail, they usually split along the length of tubing or at a connection to a manifold.

Was the failure point at a seam between two different pieces ?

Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member

 

[minuteman]

FloorGuy, I bought it from PowerClean, and they will not back it up, and as you can see it's not SS so I have been ripped off, coast around $800.00 or so,... am I pissed ,... BEYOND!!!!!!!!!!!! Larry, it split in half as thought a knife cut through it,... go figure 'cause I can't !!! Nick, ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!

 

[Guest]

Call me tomorrow 940-642-2503 send me pictures and dimensions.
to nellos1909@hotmail.com

 

[minuteman]

OK Nick, it looks like you're for REAL!!! I'll just send you this coil pictured and we will go from there. There are two of them that fit in the twin tanks in the background of the the first pic posted. I'll call you and e-mail you the design of the whole thing. Thanks, Greg

 

[minuteman]

Just to update all of you,... PowerClean shipped out the replacement coil Tuesday at a coast of around $300.00 for something that "died" in "14 MONTHS",... "THAT HAS A TWO YEAR WARRANTY" and due to a "SCREW UP" at "PC" with the "ZIP CODE", it will arrive tomorrow {Friday} by 10:30 A.M through Fed EX,... LUCKY ME! Guys!, The thing that Pisses Me Off is that if you buy something from lets say "Greenie"! "You Straight Up Know Its On The Money" and he Will "BACK It UP" Why can't These "People" Get it Through There "HEADS" and just "BACK UP WHAT THEY SELL"!!!!

AWE! SHIT! WHAT CAN I SAY!!!

"LIFE" "YOU LEARN" AND "TGIF"


GREG

 

[minuteman]

MATT, Sorry to have not responded sooner, No, I only use BaneClene Chems so what NOW!

 

[John Watson]

If I bought a new machine from any company that had a 2 yr warranty on the coils and in 14 months they did what yours did with a break like yours and they denied it.. I think I would be all over them like flies on shit.

They said no after seeing the photo of your break and you live in LA. where the temp wasn't below the 40's??..

I am not familiar with Power Clean, but they sound like power rip offs to me. Anybody else having problems with this company and their products??

My chopska is off to Nick for stepping in, I would send theirs back in a heart beat and just write the shipping off and let them know about the exposure they are receiving on this board and hopefully Mikey or Tony will invite them for the hot seat...

 

[jethro]

Very odd break. I would think power clean would have asked a few questions before saying its your problem because it may be an indication of a manufacturing flaw that could be in other machines.If I were them I would WANT to know. The break does not look like a freeze break. It looks more like a vibration stress type failure given its in the middle of the coil where it might show up. It could be the tubing had a flaw it it from the tube mill and field service finished it off.The thing is THEY KNOW THESE THINGS AND TELL YOU ITS YOUR PROBLEM !!! Poor leadership. This will damage their reputation way more than the $300 they are stiffing you for.This is what Steve T calls A MOMENT OF TRUTH!

 

[Gary Bethel]

Hi Minuteman, I am involved with Powerclean equipment in Australia. That is a pretty bad break in that copper tubing. You did not have be off the road though because of it. It can be taken out of the loop by joining the two pipes outside the heat exchange. Very simple procedure. That way you will be running with 3 heat exchanges instead of four. Still be probably one of the hottest machines out there. If need be you could even by pass the second liquid heat exchanger and still clean all day.


Those copper tubes have an operating pressure of over 4000psi. So if you were to run them at the 3000psi which the Genesis can be run at, and we do that out here all day long out here,you still have a fair margin of operating capability. The solution that goes through those tubes is the actual cleaning solution, NOT the engine coolant. If it were the other way around, the engine coolant going through the coil, that would be a problem in that the engine could be in jepordy because you would loose your radiator coolant and run your engine dry.[ Except the engine has watch dogs to protect it if a fan belt were to break and the engine coolant were to get to hot.]

The EXHAUST heat exchange is indeed all stainless steel.
If you look in your manual on page 18 and the first part of page 19, it explains the water flow for the Genesis. You will see that it is not super heated water passing through the copper liquid heat exchanges. The real heating is happening after the water leaves the two liquid heat exchanges. Only when the water is on the final stage on going out to the carpet does it enter the exhaust heat exchange for it to be super heated.

You may already understand that the temperature of internal water flow in the hoses around the machine is quiet low. The water in the header box and thus the water in the Cat pump never gets above 145F. Which is very interesting as all the machines I have had previously were running 165F through the internal hoses, header tank and pump. So in actual fact, running the lower temps internally will help the pump and a lot of other fittings. I surpose that Powerclean feel that they can run lower temperatures internally as that final stainless steel exhaust heat exchange has a large capacity that can really boot some heat into the cleaning solution.

Gary Bethel