Oil Fired vs. Propane

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George Valliant
I've always been a huge fan of Oil Fired TM's!

But, have never used propane before.

Anyone use both or know what's the pro' and con's of each are?
 
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Shawn Forsythe
Oil/diesel/kero:
Pros:
BTU's per gallon/lb are much higher.
Cost less per btu, in most cases.
Fuel can be safely stored inside vehicle.
Heaters generally use steel coils, which are higher pressure
Heaters are forced air, so more fuel can be burned in a given space, so a heater of a given size will have much more output than a similarly sized propane unit.

Cons:
It reeks in the van.
It reeks when you burn it.
It soots up everywhere.
Heaters generally use steel coils, emitting rust on occasion
Heaters are relatively complex, with associated higher maintenance costs


Propane:
Pros:
No odor (relatively)
Lower soot production than oil
Sometimes it is less costly to run than diesel (rarely so, but sometimes)
Copper coils don't cause rusting to emit
propane heaters are nearly the simplest in terms of complexity and lower maintenance costs.

Cons:
Expensive to store (tanks cost more)
More expensive to plumb
Needs a regulator
Copper coils are usually run at a lower pressure
Fuel is less available (number of retailers per sq mile)
 

Duane Oxley

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Pro for oil- fired: Many service stations carry diesel, which can be burned, especially if it's "Number 2" or "low sulphur", which most is. As a result, you have access to fuel 24/7

Con for propane: By contrast, as propane has fewer locations as Shawn said, those locations also tend to be open only 9 to 5.

The big thing for propane, IMO is that it's simpler and basically odor- free. And the heat of a flow- fired, high pressure coil propane heater can rival oil- fired.

It's simpler than heat exchange as well.
 

joeynbgky

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I can usually fill up my propane tank for 11 bucks, at a 9-6 shop. But the other day I needed it at 1 am. guess who was open? the KOA campground. they fill up 24 hrs a day. my bill was 23 bucks with them though.
 

bob vawter

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PROPANE....all the components of a bomb...stored close enough together...
thats its not "if" its'"when" it will explode
 

DavidVB

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I've had both. I greatly prefer kerosene.

Locations to get propane were scarce in my area. We used marine fuel tanks for kero and I kept an extra around so I could just switch tanks if I wanted. No option to do that with a belly tank. It was a pain if I ran out of propane. I also felt like I was driving around a bomb.

I see a lot of comments about kerosene smelling up the van. I ran Powermatics for 13 years and only noticed it if we slopped a little around in the truck. I did notice a little film on the windshield when I cleaned it.
 

steve g

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the last place I worked at had slide in steam genies and 120k little giant propane heaters, unless there is some tweak you can do to the heater, this heater did not put out as much overall heat as my 18hp bridgepoint saber unit, which is the same as a prochem legend.

I have never used the 180k little giant but I can tell you I am less than impressed with the 120k LG IMO its not enough heat for a single wand machine of any type.

are there any other propane heaters besides little giants??
 

Duane Oxley

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steve g said:
are there any other propane heaters besides little giants??

Yep.

BestHeaterPromo.jpg
 
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Duane Oxley said:
[quote="steve g":2z8e1k04]
are there any other propane heaters besides little giants??

Yep.

BestHeaterPromo.jpg
[/quote:2z8e1k04]


What's the cost difference between that and LG's?

Is fuel use the same?

What type of coils?

Maintenance difference?
 

joeynbgky

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duane, what brand of propane heater is that? How does it compare in reliability to the little giant? yours of course is much nicer to look at.
 

Duane Oxley

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We make them here in Atlanta.

I've never had one freeze and rupture, in the 14 years I've been working with them.

The flow switch can require additional maintenance compared to a Little Giant, but that's about it.

They handle 10,000 PSI.

Thanks for the compliment on appearance. I think that the black base compliments the stainless steel wrap nicely as well... 8)
 
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Kevin McCreary
I'm loving oil fire right now. I have never been able to get over 190-200 degrees

at the wand when its 15-20 degrees outside. Even with a little giant. Now, I could

get 260 at the wand if I needed it. I didn't even know what carpet cleaning was

until I got over 230 at the wand. The Vortex wouldn't even do it in the cold.
 

Dolly Llama

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I've run both

Propane is clean, but was a PITA to fill, and I even had my own key and code number to punch in at Amerigas.
I could fill my own anytime night or day
But it was still a PITA to me.
also more expensive
and on windy the days, i was out to the the van every 15 minutes lighting the pilot light

and I'd be lying if I didn't say the "KABOOM" factor never entered my mind.
I personally know one fellow that blew up his van w/propane .
Super clean burning is propane's greatest virtue

been running fuel burner for the last 14 years.
It doesn't "stink up" the van and there's no soot if you burn K-1 kero.
I never burn diesel in it except for the rare occasion where we ran out and a diesel pump was closest to the job.
Diesel flat out STINKS in a fuel burner.
also sooty
I haven't a clue why anyone would burn it ... :roll:

K-1 is easy to find here.
Every Sheets gas station has it year round (and they're plentiful here)
several other stations carry it here year round as well


kero burner works for me


..L.T.A.
 

Shane T

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Shane Tiegs
I've been using a Little Giant for over 25 years. The first few years I had a belly mount but changed to a tank inside my van when switching to a new van. Keep everthing secured and in good order, you'll never have a bomb. Where do you think they carry the propane for hot air balloons? Someone even sells a Little Giant with the tank mounted on a cart.
The only thing I don't like about the LG is that it rattles and sweaks like crazy while driving down the road.
 
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Shane T said:
I've been using a Little Giant for over 25 years. The first few years I had a belly mount but changed to a tank inside my van when switching to a new van. Keep everthing secured and in good order, you'll never have a bomb. Where do you think they carry the propane for hot air balloons? Someone even sells a Little Giant with the tank mounted on a cart.
The only thing I don't like about the LG is that it rattles and sweaks like crazy while driving down the road.


I concur. :lol: Noisy bastids. But the heat is good. :D
 

Bob Savage

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Shane and Nate said:
The only thing I don't like about the LG is that it rattles and squeaks like crazy while driving down the road.
On the Little Giant, that squeak is probably coming from where one of the pipes (usually the lower coil drain plug fitting) is going through the outer skin. It rubs back and forth during motion. If you cut the opening a little bigger, the squeak will go away.

LP heating systems for truckmounts, or portables, are NOT a bomb waiting to go off, as some of you seem to think. Good Lord, what about RV's, and travel trailers, pop-up tent campers, and your backyard grill??? The belly mount tanks of carpet cleaning vans are built to withstand a direct hit from a 30-06. These heating systems are very safe, as long as you do not try to over-ride them in an un-orthodox way.

The majority of van fires you hear about, are not propane, but are gasoline related.

The LP heaters that we use (our SAVAGE TM LP heater), have never "gone out" on a windy day. IF they were to, they are automatically relighted, by the "smart" heater itself.

The heat is so even, with no spikes or heat loss while cleaning. Where you set the dial, is where it stays for the entire job.

Set the wand down for several minutes. The heater will not fire the entire time unless you flow the system by keying the wand. So, you have no over-heating or dumping because the wand is idle.

There is no pilot to fuss with - it's an electronic pilot. There is no way to drive around in a cleaning van with the pilot of this heater accidentally being ON.

I've seen it happen years ago, techs leaving the pilot ON while driving to their next job.

All of the parts on this heater are extremely reliable, and will go for years without need for replacement, or attention, including the gas valve, electronic box, and auto-light feature, the burner and jets, and the coil itself (no coil problems in 10 years of offering this heater).

No, we do NOT use a copper coil, but instead we use a coil that is tested to above 10,000 PSI.

What will need replacing periodically on this heater is the thermostat (about every 2 years), the LP tank regulator (every 4 years or so), and a flow switch every 4 years (all of these parts are less than $50 each).

Oh, and there are no LP jets to clean out like some of the other LP heaters require.

No bypassing, no diverters, no burping, no need for the technician to touch anything about the heater before cleaning other than the temperature dial - you just turn it ON.

While the heater is running, you can put your hand on the outside case, and it is just warm, even if it's been on for hours. I have been burnt by touching the case of other LP heaters while they were running.

There is no need to vent this heater through the roof of your van. A simple top cap diffuses the exhaust heat evenly away from the top of the heater.

There is enough heat for 2 wands, or less heat for delicate upholstery or fabrics. A single dial controls the entire heat range.

In all fairness I have never used a kero heater, but from what I understand the kero unit is forced air fed, not gravity fed, and does require about 14 amps of 110V power to run it.

I've also heard the 12VDC kero burners are not as reliable as the 110V ones.

I started cleaning carpet in 1984 using a Little Giant LP heater 3-HT for heat. I was satisfied with it for over a decade, until we decided we wanted a better heater.

Our heater requires only 1 amp to run it, but with our patented afterburner circuit that is this heater's trademark, we are squeezing more heat out of fewer BTU's.
 

Greenie

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Propane is easy to find in Cali, I can only assume other states have blue rhino swap out stations at grocery stores etc...if you are in a bind?

If you had the room and local ordinances allowed for it, i'd just have a 200 g. pill dropped at the house, the bulk fill rate would be cheaper, and you could gravity fill your rig on your own.
 

Dolly Llama

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Bob Savage said:
In all fairness I have never used a kero heater, but from what I understand the kero unit is forced air fed, not gravity fed, and does require about 14 amps of 110V power to run it.

I'll see if I can find the amp draw, but don't think it's anywhere near 14 , Bob
I guessing it's more like 8 amps
the spark igniter draws a couple amps is all the pump and blower can't draw much more than 5 or 6 I'd reckon


..L.T.A.
 

Duane Oxley

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meAt said:
Bob Savage said:
In all fairness I have never used a kero heater, but from what I understand the kero unit is forced air fed, not gravity fed, and does require about 14 amps of 110V power to run it.

I'll see if I can find the amp draw, but don't think it's anywhere near 14 , Bob
I guessing it's more like 8 amps
the spark igniter draws a couple amps is all the pump and blower can't draw much more than 5 or 6 I'd reckon


..L.T.A.

Propane isn't "gravity fed". It's pressurized at about 1/2 PSI.

Oil- fired is "forced air", meaning that there's a fan under the jet, forcing airflow in the direction of the exhaust. As a result, it can lay sideways and still work well. (Also, more fuel can be fed through the system, since more airflow is present to increase available oxygen.)

It's 16 amps on a 12 volt DC system, so should be lower on 110 volts.

The 12 volt systems aren't "new", by the way. And we don't use Wayne... but rather, Beckett. As I understand it, the early ones did have some issues, but the current ones are doing very well.
 

Bob Savage

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Bob Savage said:
In all fairness I have never used a kero heater, but from what I understand the kero unit is forced air fed, not gravity fed, and does require about 14 amps of 110V power to run it.
[quote="Larry C":2687kj7j]I'll see if I can find the amp draw, but don't think it's anywhere near 14 , Bob
I guessing it's more like 8 amps
the spark igniter draws a couple amps is all the pump and blower can't draw much more than 5 or 6 I'd reckon
..L.T.A.
Duane said:
Propane isn't "gravity fed". It's pressurized at about 1/2 PSI.
[/quote:2687kj7j]

I agree Duane that the LP is under 1/2 PSI. When I said gravity fed, I mean the combustion air, not the propane itself, so fewer amps are required to make the LP heater operate.

Thanks for your post.
 

steve g

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the controller on the little giant heater looks exactly like the one of a regular hot water heater, does this preclude the water from ever getting heated to over 200 degrees?? it sure seemed like that on the 120k little giants I used. or is there some way of tweaking the controller, as it came I don't think the water could ever be heated more than that of a standard home water heater.
 

Ron Werner

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I had a oil burner. It was inconsistent with its heat, from 180 to 240.
Loud
wasn't worried about smell since it was in the box
it was piped outside so didn't have to worry about soot.
steel coils rusted
had issues where it wouldn't light, thus no heat

Using a LG for the past year and a half
no soot,
exhausts in the box, no issues
outer shell stays cool
propane is relatively easy to find here, just need to keep the tank topped up.
had no problems lighting it, no rust issues with the copper
 

Bob Savage

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Consistency with the heat, reliability with the components, and never a problem with not enough heat gives owners of LP, and the kero systems, peace of mind, knowing that the heat will never be an issue with ANY cleaning job.
 
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Mikey P said:
Tons of Propane spots in my area and only one for Kero.


I have never seen Kero sold here. Maybe I'm not looking in the right areas. Propane runs about $3.40-$3.80 a gallon.
 

Duane Oxley

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Number 2 (low sulphur) diesel burns about as clean as Kero. (Some say it burns cleaner.) And it's available at any service station that sells diesel, since it's preferred for emission concerns.
 
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Duane Oxley said:
Number 2 (low sulphur) diesel burns about as clean as Kero. (Some say it burns cleaner.) And it's available at any service station that sells diesel, since it's preferred for emission concerns.


I don't know diesel other then seeing B20?... around here. Does that mean anything?
 

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