On line lie detectors...

Numero Uno

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Caesar
On line lie detectors...whom besides Magic wand and Steam way and Hydramaster have them ???

I would like to put one inbeteen the valve and the wand elbow?

Magic Wand has the version with the least angles.

Does anyone make a straight version?
 

Duane Oxley

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I do, Caesar...

I don't have a picture at the moment, but can get you one tomorrow afternoon.

$75

The probe of the gauge is long enough that it pretty much has to be in some kind of Tee arrangement.
 

Johnnyone

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For those that get temp over 220+

If you put the water into a bucket test, would start boiling?
 

Numero Uno

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It is not so much as to know how hot...

But more for stabiled cleaning levels.

If I am,working on a spot but I want heat,but not too much.Or for winter stability.To see if I lose heat at a certain distance on cold nit-es compared to the insulated leadin,then if any rise due to the insulation,

Things Like that.Or for checking the volcano electric heaters.Those coupled in with the pre heated water in the tank.Should jump me quite a bit.

But I want to monitor the Banes and tweak them a hair.They are so inexpensive to run.They have generated enough to justify some options at this point.

Been using them with my accoustic ceiling and awning cleaning.Keeps me busy inventing stuff to try and do...
 
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Johnnyone said:
For those that get temp over 220+

If you put the water into a bucket test, would start boiling?

I tried once and melted a bucket. I'm sure it probably would, when we get a leak at one of the connectors at the wand it only drips until you get the water flowing. Once the temps are up there the water will boil on the connectors and wont drip.
 

Dolly Llama

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Ceez, If I'm not mistaken, i think John Olsen sells them too
(He's a member here)





Johnnyone said:
For those that get temp over 220+

If you put the water into a bucket test, would start boiling?

never tried it, but don't think so, cause it would cool down too fast as it's filling.

like taking a pot of boiling water off the stove.
It stops boiling with in seconds


..L.T.A.
 

John Olson

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Call me. AS Duane said the Probe is long and dictates how it is made. I can't speak for anyone else but we don't use cheap Thermometers. They are 85% of the cost. They are not a money maker for us we build them as a courtesy for you guys :)
 

XTREME1

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I got mine from John and I am happy to say over 230 atw the wand all day long. I have to turn the temp down so I do not have run off to my waste tank it gets so hot.
 

Blue Monarch

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OK, at sea level, water boils at 212 right? You can keep it in liquid form above 212 with pressure (solution line). If it is anything higher than 212 at the wand, why isn't it pure steam when the trigger is pulled?

I've wondered this for quite a while, just never asked.

230 ATM makes sense to me, but 230 ATW doesn't. Someone explain this.
 

J Scott W

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Dirk Wingrove said:
OK, at sea level, water boils at 212 right? You can keep it in liquid form above 212 with pressure (solution line). If it is anything higher than 212 at the wand, why isn't it pure steam when the trigger is pulled?

I've wondered this for quite a while, just never asked.

230 ATM makes sense to me, but 230 ATW doesn't. Someone explain this.

Dirk, I will try and give a short answer, but there is a lot to that question.

Liquid water can and does turn to steam or vapor at any temperature. A puddle of water doesn't need to reach 212 F to evaporate. It will still turn to vapor.

Water vapor in the air can turn to liquid at any temperature. In a bathroom with a hot shower running, water will condense on col surfaces such as the mirror.

Each water molecule will have different amounts of energy. This energy is expressed as motion. A molecule with limited motion will be liquid (or even solid ice). When it gets enough energy it becomes a gas or vapor.

Molecules are always gaining and losing energy. Even at a constant temperature water is both evaporate and condensing at the same time. In water damage restoration, we worry about the NET evaporation.

Molecules near the surface of a body of water require the least energy to escape and become a gas. So usually those are the molecules that are evaporating.

At 212 F a container of water has enough energy that some water molecules that are not near the surface change to vapor. This is the bubbles that rise to the surface as water boils.

There are still many molecules that don't have enough energy to become gas. Even some that are losing energy and turning back to water.

Just as all ice doesn't instantly melt and turn to liquid water if the temperature gets above 32 F, so all water doesn't immediately turn to water vapor at 212 F.

Scott Warrington
 

Duane Oxley

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230 ATW is generally measured at the wand valve. But between the valve and the jet(s) there is heat loss. That amount of loss varies, depending upon the material of the hose or tube and the thickness of the material, as well as the flow rate through the hose or tube, and it varies with the ambient temperature.

For instance, heat loss will be greater through a stainless steel tube, than a 1/4" hose, due to the tube being "just a tube" and having no insulating value, compared to a hose with several layers that act as insulation.

The longer the fluid stays in the hose or tube (i.e., lower flow rate), the longer the amount of time that it loses temperature to the cooler air around it. The higher the flow rate, the less time to lose heat, therefore less heat loss.

Heat loss is a result of a difference in temperature between two areas, and the two areas coming into a balance by either losing or gaining temperature in the process. (i.e., the cooler air around the hotter tube actually gains temperature, as the hose / tube loses it.)

So, 230 ATW isn't the same thing as 230 ATJ (at the jet)... And 230 ATJ (if it's achieved), isn't the same thing as 230 ATC (at the carpet). At each point along the way, as the solution travels (or if it simply remains in the hose, etc.), it loses temperature.

I haven't done tests to be specific, in terms of what I can say here. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a typical heat loss between the valve and the jets, prior to solution leaving the jets, of 20 degrees, with a stainless steel tube as the conduit. I wouldn't be surprised to see 10 degrees loss with a pressure hose instead of a tube.

So, let's take 10 degrees loss. That means, with a start off point of 230, we now have 220 ATJ. As soon as the solution leaves the jet, it loses temperature. If I remember correctly, SteamWay did a test years ago and the result was that a typical heat loss is 15 degrees per inch of travel, between the jet and the carpet fibers. (And, BTW, that isn't a constant... a smaller jet puts out a smaller stream, which is "thinner", mixes with the surrounding air and loses heat quicker as a result, than a thicker stream does.)

So, if you have 2 inches of travel between the jet and the carpet, you can count on losing 30 degrees there.

230 as a start- off, minus 10 in the tube / hose of the wand, minus 30 between the jet and the fibers... 190 degrees.

... and as soon as the spray hits the fibers, the fibers gain heat, as the spray loses more heat...

That's why I've been "preaching" high heat / high flow systems since the mid- 1990's, when I first began building truck mounts...

High heat gives you a head start... a higher start off point. High flow allows you to retain more of it...
 

Duane Oxley

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I ain't been gone, Mardy...

I been pokin' my nose in ever so oftun just to see what's goin on, while I been othurwise occupied designing and formulating...:eek:)

I got your address in a list of about 500 people who'll be getting a mail out from me, hopefully next week.

If anyone wants to be added, just E-mail me...
 

B&BGaryC

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B&BGaryC
Scott, when you say it like that it almost makes me feel stupid. Of course!

You're a smart man. Not because you knew why, but because you could teach it in such a succinct manner.
 

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