Owner Operator vs Hired Technician

[Spurlington]

How are we going to get the cleaner to be as good as we THINK we are? We all say or think we are the best and no one cleans like us. I wish there were more of me. We hire guys and train them the way we want them to operate but once youre out of site, they find their own way of doing things that suit them better. What ever is more comfortable for themselves rather than what the company expects.

When the owner operator is on the job, they are out to give the best results, (in most cases),. If something looks funny, we will go over it again til were confident it cant get any cleaner. Were careful with the customers belongings. We make sure we mention possible referrals. We are not just cleaners. We are business builders. Cleaning is not our main objective. Building a cleaning business is.

Theres a difference in how we as an owner operator operate vs a hired technician. We can train, train and train but will never get a tech to operate like the owner. Even with accountability .. there are too many shoulder shruggers. Guys that could give two shits. Just pay me.

I get the difference between an owner operator vs a hired tech. You can only expect so much. I want more from a tech. I want owner operator attitude with unbeatable results. Which brings me to - how am I gonna do that? I thought maybe if I hire someone on as a partner. I "may" get the results Im looking for. Each truck would have a partnered/owner operator.

Ive been cleaning along time. I have heard too many times (from customers and other cleaners), and have seen it with my own guys over the years, that hired help just dont have that ambition to go above and beyond. Im not saying all techs. And I dooo get why. But customers notice that and take that into consideration whether they refer or even hire you again. Wouldnt it be nice to build a business with a bunch of partnered owner operators giving the absolute best. The chances of producing phenomenal results with the best care are higher. Getting a bunch of little owners to help build the empire.

Am I dreaming .. Im looking for all comments .. good or bad ..

 

[Desk Jockey]

Its the carpet cleaners curse, we all think only we can clean the best and without us the business will fail. The sad truth is your clients cannot tell the difference between you and a well trained technician.

The challenge is as you mentioned not just training but maintaining a consistent level of the delivered product (clean carpet). It is a challenge but one that is worth tackling and one that will require constant vigilance. It can be done but it will require you to be the trainer, you to make QC call backs. Make unscheduled drop in's, check on the crew, greet the client. Tell them you there just checking on how things are going and you appreciate their business.

Have daily quick hitter brief meetings on the areas of customer service you most want attention to: pre-vacuuming (Yes Jimmy "Pre" as in the vacuuming before the vacuuming. ), attention to entry and traffic areas, specialized spotting, pet odors, grooming etc.

Have monthly meetings with attention to "Vast" type training, less technical and more customer service. You can make good technicians out of anyone that cares and wants to do a good job.

We gets stacks of great QC cards back, we get calls from clients bragging on our tech's so I know it can be done. None of our guys were hired with experience, they were all trained by us and take part in ongoing training so they are consistently aware of our goal.

This client says "Chavez sure knows how to hire fantastic employees". LOL They don't start out that way, we build them.

 

[juniorc82]

I used to think that I was some magical cleaner, and by following my strict methodology it would be impossible for an employee to get the results like me. I now know this to be false. I realize that a lot of it is that through small talk with the customer I humanized my business and that was the element the customers liked. chavez is correct if you have a decent truck mount and a well trained employee getting a carpet cleaned is small fries. They key in my opinion is to find a personable tech who can talk to the customer and make that customer comfortable with them working in the home. That is the hard part. I have had a couple great cleaners who where simply anti social so it would have been hard to get them to lighten up and be friendly with mrs jones. But the short version is that its just carpet cleaning so don't go thinking your some great cleaner and your results cant be duplicated. Many millions are spent monthly in this industry on the best chemicals and mschines to bridge the skill gap and help employees get the best results. But my opinion should be took with a grain of salt because Im only 31 and I only send employees to do vacants or commercial on their own, I do all residential jobs. I think if you devise a way to pay bonuses to a lead tech and make them have some skin in the game its a challenge that can be easily overcome

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree to a point, the more personality the better. As long as they can control themselves and not get creepy about it.

You think Ofer gets his clients off his good looks? His cheap tools? It's got to be his charming personality!

 

[ruff]

One of the issues that needs to be honestly looked at, as owner operators, is ourselves. It requires the ability to look at one's self and be able to honestly asses our qualities, or lack of. Not an easy task.

Are we as good as we think we are?

To be great, A true owner operator needs to be good at many things. A good cleaner (technically), be on time and good at managing time, good with clients, good at answering the phone, financially responsible to mention just a few. Some of these talents usually do not go hand in hand with each other.

The smart big companies, can separate those responsibilities and assign them to the people who are really talented at what they do. They have more time for sleek packaging, creating procedures designed to increase quality and avoid mistakes, and at times the ability to respond faster to client's needs.

HOWEVER, most of the time, the truly good owner operator will be able to provide a much better service to their clients, both real and perceived. The good large companies will do their best to lift their standard to the highest average possible, it is still the "highest averagepossible."
Beside the occasional star technician (a lucky freak) their employees as a whole will never match the great O/O. Not a chance!

As these intangible qualities can not be "trained" into employees, no matter how many 'points of truth' are in that manual. Oh yes, I know that Steve has a manual for it. And yes these companies may train their employees very well and lift them (pull them may be a better word) to a higher standard. However, they will never match a great O/O. Not a chance. Though you may average it out, you can't bottle it into a manual.

The other important question is not how many of us owners operators think we are great (we all do), but how many of us truly are?

 

[GCCLee]

As a Sole Proprietor and the way Ins is set up w/ out WC since it doesn't cover me any way in this state.

I just bitch alot. )

 

[Desk Jockey]

The other question is not how many of us owners operators think we are great (we all do), but how many of us truly are?

I'd like to think most here are great cleaners.

However the vast majority of cleaners don't frequent boards, they don't keep up with new technology and new chemistry. They don't continue to improve their craft. They make it easier for those that do, to maintain a firm hold on their clients.

 

[Mikey P]

When I work with my guys I find myself impressed and even some times frustrated, with their over attention to details. Sure once in a while they don't see something but than again, so do I.


It's all in how you train them. Make sure you obsess over the small stuff in front of them during the first few weeks.




and don't hire #5's

 

[ruff]

I'd like to think most here are great cleaners.

However the vast majority of cleaners don't frequent boards, they don't keep up with new technology and new chemistry. They don't continue to improve their craft. They make it easier for those that do, to maintain a firm hold on their clients.

Richard, you're just demonstrating my point.
First, the truly good O/O does all of that, and.........

It has never been about how good you are technically. Ever.
A mediocre cleaner with great people skills will trump the world's best (technically) cleaner with mediocre people skills, every single day of the week (and the weekends too!).

That is what a good O/O brings to the table. It can not be taught through a manual, through procedures or through what I know you practice frequently as large company owner- prayer .

Though the last one if truly practiced by your employees, will actually help. They may become your competitors though.

 

[ruff]

As a Sole Proprietor and the way Ins is set up w/ out WC since it doesn't cover me any way in this state.

I just bitch alot. )

Wow. Boy. As an aspiring to be great o/o, do I need to work on my English skills!

Would somebody care to translate?

 

[Desk Jockey]

It has never been about how good you are technically. Ever.
A mediocre cleaner with great people skills will trump the world's best (technically) cleaner with mediocre people skills.

Maybe?? I expect both from my people here is why. If it's not cleaned to the point that someone else can do better you leave the door open for someone to come in and backdoor you. Through training we also work with them to understand the importance of client cleaner relationship. As well as working on good communications skills, which reduces misunderstandings so you have fewer problems.

We set them up so it's hard not to be a hero. They have nice uniforms, clean trucks, capable equipment & chems along with technical and customer service training.

 

[GCCLee]

Wow. Boy. As an aspiring to be great o/o, do I need to work on my English skills!

Would somebody care to translate?

Workers Comp. Insurance does not cover a Sole Proprietorship in our state. Therefore i do not have any and cannot hire an employee : )

 

[Brian H]

It has never been about how good you are technically. Ever.
A mediocre cleaner with great people skills will trump the world's best (technically) cleaner with mediocre people skills, every single day of the week (and the weekends too!).

That is what a good O/O brings to the table. It can not be taught through a manual, through procedures or through what I know you practice frequently as large company owner- prayer .

It's simple then, hire technicians with GREAT people skills!! You have found our secret for hiring technicians!!!

When I interview someone for a entry level technician role, the last thing we talk about is cleaning or prior work history. I talk about what they do when they aren't working, what they do for fun, how they interact with others, what type of an initial impression they make, are they a nice person. In most cases I can tell you more about someone from the initial greeting in our lobby and the walk back to my office then I can in the next 45 minutes of an interview. Carpet cleaning I can teach, being nice and personable is not so easy to teach.

 

[GCCLee]

That was spot on Brian! Wow : )

 

[Torrey Express]

I've heard steve T say they made their techs use Rx20s on every single job to ensure a more thorough clean.
I believe Boldens (popular company here, bill Y could fill ya in) also do the same.

I worked for a company for a year out of high school and they paid commission on jobs and call backs were on your dime. So you did t want to miss stupid stuff that would get called in.

If have to think the initial training is gonna set the tone also. If you show them how you can bang out a job and make on the fly decisions to skip this or that, they are gonna do the same but without the knowledge on how to do it undetected.
As I work with my helper every day, I do things more detailed than necessary in hopes that if the bar falls when I'm not around, it falls to a acceptable level of quality.

If the techs just a dud, I won't hesitate to cut them loose in the future.

But what do I know, I'm still new to this.
My residential tech is either with me or he's doing a a rental/repo where no one is there. And the guy I pay to do my night commercial work never deals with a client at all, just does the job and leaves and I call to make sure it looked good to the store owners every month.

2014 will be a big learning experience for me as I plan to have my new tm out full time solo.

 

[ruff]

I find it curious that in a BB full of o/o that I am quite sure share my opinion, I seem to be the only one debating this.
Well.......why not!

Through training we also work with them to understand the importance of client cleaner relationship. As well as working on good communications skills, which reduces misunderstandings so you have fewer problems.

We set them up so it's hard not to be a hero. They have nice uniforms, clean trucks, capable equipment & chems along with technical and customer service training.

Had that been the case, surely Dennis,The Olive Garden, Panda Express and yes dear, your favorite: Taco Bell, been the world best restaurants. After all "They have nice uniforms, clean restaurants, capable equipment and ingredients along with customer service training.

Surely through training they work with them to understand the importance of client employee relationship. As well as working on good communications skills, which reduces misunderstandings so they have fewer problems."

These respected and successful establishments invest more $$$ in one day training & buying equipment than a small outstanding restaurant chef/owner will spend in few life times.

However, I very much doubt that Bryan will take his wife to the Olive Garden when he wants a really outstanding Italian dinner. When with the kids? - Maybe. With his least favorite relatives?- Surely. When he craves reasonable value for the price and absolutely unlimited (just slightly stale) garlic sticks?- You got a deal.

For a truly great Italian dinner?- Fuged about it.

It's simple then, hire technicians with GREAT people skills!! You have found our secret for hiring technicians!!!

Carpet cleaning I can teach, being nice and personable is not so easy to teach.

Thank you Brian. Your admiration did not go unnoticed

However, a truly great o/o has the secret combination of more than one ingredient. You are right, you can't teach them to be nice and personable.You also can't really teach them to care (giving consequences is not teaching to care). You certainly can't teach or provide them with the drive to be outstanding at what they do. You can't bestow on them that OCD uncontrollable push to excel at what they do.

Yes, you can strive for a higher standard than the average. You can constantly keep at it and try to improve.
As I am sure most of you guys do. You may even have a few outstanding hired technicians.
But the average company employee, will never match a truly good owner operator.

It ain't me gentlemen, it's the law of statistics and averages.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I don't find it curious at all......you're trouble!

 

[ruff]

 

[Brian H]

As I am sure most of you guys do. You may even have a few outstanding hired technicians.
But the average company employee, will never match a truly good owner operator.

It ain't me gentlemen, it's the law of statistics and averages.

That's the reason we do NOT hire average company employees.

Your argument is a bit flawed in that you are comparing "the average company employee" to a "truly good owner operator". Why not compare the truly good company employee to the average owner operator?

 

[Jim Martin]

Rule #1.....never hire a ex carpet cleaner.......
Rule #2.....they are only going to be as good as you train them........
Rule #3.....they aren't you...........

 

[ruff]

That's the reason we do NOT hire average company employees.

Your argument is a bit flawed in that you are comparing "the average company employee" to a "truly good owner operator". Why not compare the truly good company employee to the average owner operator?

That's a good valid argument Brian and it is worth considering.
Though, if you re read my original post:

One of the issues that needs to be honestly looked at, as owner operators, is ourselves. It requires the ability to look at one's self and be able to honestly asses our qualities, or lack of. Not an easy task.

Are we as good as we think we are?
...
...
The other important question is not how many of us owners operators think we are great (we all do), but how many of us truly are?

You'll notice that in my own convoluted way, I have addressed it.

The average o/o to my opinion is likely to be equal to the really good company employee depending on the quality of the company he's working for and how long he stays. If he's truly great, you may have contributed to the age old industry custom of training your competition

The good and smart o/o will leave them panting in the dust. Or, if in Detroit- panting in the blizzard



Regarding:

That's the reason we do NOT hire average company employees.

I understand and support the sentiment behind this statement Brian, and I know that Hagopian practices that and kudos to you. It is both smart and practical.
However, do not kid yourself, whether you want to admit or not, once you have an x number of employees you do have an average employee.
It ain't me Brian it's the law of statistics and averages

Though I am sure that you will do anything within your means to make that average as high as possible. An ocd quality you posses that makes you not unsimilar to the great o/o.

Which inevitably leads us to the next question: When are you starting your own business?

 

[steve_64]

i dont think im that special. i sucked when i first started but i learned from my mistakes. i think the key is to finding someone who is conciouncious and is willing to learn. honest, passionate and caring people are all around us, its our job to find them and treat them likewise.

until they get hands on and some experience under them they will never be like us.

 

[Desk Jockey]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Ofer I can see where you’re coming from and I’d say you’re both right in your thinking and….well.....wrong also.


I don’t believe being an O/O automatically crowns you as better than an company tech, solely because you own the business.


Locally I think my tech’s can out clean most of the O/O in my town. Many don’t have the training whether formal or ongoing in house that my techs do. They think that since they took a class 10-years ago they know everything. They scrimp on the products they use, always looking for the cheapest one they can find because it saves them money in their pocket. They will also limp along with an old POS machine and van that should have been retired long ago.


No I don’t think it’s an owner op vs larger company thing. I see it as the culture in the individual company that makes a difference. When you have someone that cares about doing the right thing, (whether motivated by pride, monetary benefit or negative consequences) they are going to provide superior service if they are an owner op or company tech.


In fact I think the O/O may have so many other things on his mind when cleaning that could convolute his process. (time, is he spending too long for what he is charging, is he using too much spotter for what’s included in the rate, is furniture manipulation cutting into is margin or does he offer less of a service to be competitive)

The company tech only cares about cleaning and customer satisfaction. He doesn’t have as much concern about making a profit or the cost of the products he uses as an O/O might.


Can you be building your competition? Maybe. Although in the 46-years in business we’ve only had one that left us to start his own business. Most see that it takes far more than being a proficient cleaner to operate a business. While they love to take home the receipts, they wouldn’t want the hassle of overhead that comes with the territory. They would also have to be well funded, in this environment, few are.



[FONT=&quot]P.S. Ofer I’m glad we are not competitors…….….............................I’d hate to take clientele from you! 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P.S.S. Easy...take it easy.... it was only a joke.

 

[Shane Deubell]

If you want to find a quality tech then you have to provide a quality opportunity.

That means the ability to feed a family, small house, car payment and health insurance. What ever that means for your market.

 

[Art Kelley]

Wouldnt it be nice to build a business with a bunch of partnered owner operators giving the absolute best. The chances of producing phenomenal results with the best care are higher. Getting a bunch of little owners to help build the empire.

Am I dreaming .. Im looking for all comments .. good or bad ..

I think this question is what this thread is about. Should you take on partners? Would they be comfortable taking losses as well as profits? Not too many people like losses or can sustain them for any length of time. Otherwise you stick with employees or subcontractors and assume the downside risks.

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

I know that partnerships rarely work. In anything not just business. I like to give a great technician the opportunity to be paid for performance and not at an hourly rate. It looks like a dead end street to them. With that being said, giving them a commission and some imput on how the business is run isn't always a bad thing. Ultimately I'm in control, but I have had so many people that have worked for me that have had such diverse backgrounds, it's always paid for me to keep an open mind and even invite constructive criticism. My business has improved over the years by listening to employees. I never give them a true partnership, but a good sense of control, responsibilities, and an opportunity to make more money on any given day based on their performance.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[ruff]

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P.S.S. Easy...take it easy.... it was only a joke.

It would have broken my heart to see the Chavezettes going on welfare again.

Easy..take it easy...it was only..

Boy, you must have a sorry bunch of o/o there in Dorothy land. If all they care about is using cheaper products and cutting every step and corner they can. You should be counting your blessings daily, Richard. Imagine what will happen if you had to compete with a truly good o/o.

Grrrr...........

No need to worry about it though Rich, not yet. After all, I do want you to enjoy your time at MF


If I am not wrong about your family's history Richard, let me ask you this question:
If a client in your community had to choose between (lets assume they knew both) your dad (that was the o/o of his business) or one of your better employees, who do you think they would have chosen?

If you said- your employee, I am afraid there is no hope for you.

 

[SamIam]

Running 2 trucks tomorrow sending my son Jeremy and my other helper Phil out they both work for me part time and make a good pair, they get lots of tips and rarely do I have to do any touch ups!

I'll do 4 stops with a lot of upholstery, they're getting 5 stops!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Able 1]

Ofer, you have to let go(a little OK maybe a little more).. You can train people to do a good job, though alot is personality(as you know). Look at all the complete hacks out there that somehow stay in business. I think the best thing for you would be a broken leg or something, and you will find a way to keep it going. Not saying that I wish you to break your leg, but that might be what it takes for you to see you don't have to clean everything and have your custy's come back. Well, that's what it took for me to realize that I didn't need to stroke every fiber myself. I got T boned and shattered my elbow and cracked my pelvis(no insurance for the other driver).

How much time do you set aside to interview people every week? Oh, NO time is what you said. That is a big problem for O/O in any business, and I am guilty of it also.

Seems like you are just sitting in a corner saying "I can't hire anyone to clean carpets it's too complicated, and they can't do it like me"! That's all BS!

 

[Desk Jockey]

It would have broken my heart to see the Chavezettes going on welfare again.

Easy..take it easy...it was only..

Boy, you must have a sorry bunch of o/o there in Dorothy land. If all they care about is using cheaper products and cutting every step and corner they can. You should be counting your blessings daily, Richard. Imagine what will happen if you had to compete with a truly good o/o.

Grrrr...........

No need to worry about it though Rich, not yet. After all, I do want you to enjoy your time at MF


If I am not wrong about your family's history Richard, let me ask you this question:
If a client in your community had to choose between (lets assume they knew both) your dad (that was the o/o of his business) or one of your better employees, who do you think they would have chosen?

If you said- your employee, I am afraid there is no hope for you.

Hey you're changing your story from "Out cleaning" to "prefer the owner". Yes they would have chosen my father becaused they assumed he knew more.

Not all the competition is weak, we have some serious competitors, "Master Cleaners", with good equipment too. But like most places the good ones are by far out numbered by the bad.

When I was a small child we lived in ghetto, we were poor but my father worked hard, fortunately we were never on welfare. (not sure if it was even around then?) Being poor never bothered me, I didn't even know we were poor. We were still far better off than my father who was raised in a railroad box car.