Portable pumps 100 vs 150 vs 250 vs 400

[rick imby]

We humans are really into big numbers. We like 44 magnums, 45 ACP, 454, 27 speed bicycles. Anyway you get the picture.

My question is this. If I am running a portable with 25 feet of hose and I have a 4 jet 12" wand. If the wand is jetted to match the pump will the performance of a 100 psi pump be noticeably different than a 250 psi or 400 psi?

The porty will have autofill and autodump so the amount of water being consumed is not an issue. The only issues are ease, speed and quality of the cleaning job. The 25 feet of hose is fixed, wand will have a slotted glide.

I would love comments by the CC techies like Greenie, Mr Mytee? etc.

I know the cheaper machines come with 100 psi Pumps and that more expensive ones come with 400 psi but is this mainly a selling pitch or is the more powerful pump going to make that much difference with 25 feet of hose?

Is the main advantage of the 400 psi porty pump so you can use the same wand with your porty as your tm?

I know that a wand set up for 400-600 psi will not have enough flow with a 100 psi pump but jetted properly how will the results compare?


I know TM cleaning is in reality totally different science than Porty because of the super heated water and the higher level of suction.

If any of you have used both a porty with 400 psi and 100 psi with the wand set up with different jets for each setup speak out.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Larry Cobb]

Rick;

First of all, there are 450 PSI, 500 PSI & higher pump systems also on the market.

That being said, remember that none of these systems will develop the rated pressure when spraying.

60 to 70% is a good estimate, depending on the type of pump and motor.

The motor usually determines the relative power of the pump assembly.

We like the 450 PSI pump system that delivers 1.6 GPM for hi-power portables (1/3HP).

When you squeeze the trigger, there is plenty of impact on the carpet.

Larry

 

[rick imby]

I was just using some of the more common carpet cleaning pump sizes. As i understand it usually the 900+ psi portables are for Tile.

 

[Greenie]

Yes, it's about impact and sheer effect.

200 real psi will clean faster and more aggressively than 100 psi etc...

Keep in mind 1 gal. per min at 200 psi will clean better, and faster than 1/2 gpm at the same pressure.

Larry mentioned a % of pressure, he is spot on, I like to call it static pressure and dynamic pressure, having more horsepower will drive the pump head better against resistance, this is important in larger pumps.

Static is what the gauge shows when the trigger is not pulled, static is what is showing when the water is flowing through the jets....it's a very important detail.

I will use Pump-tec pumps as an example since they dominate the 200-1200psi portable market.

Having more horsepower/torque also allows for mechanical changes, like using a more aggressive cam in the pump head, which will allow more flow with each "cycle" of the cam, larger cams require more torque, but the additional flow is helpfull.

Now...all that said, keep in mind there is still "marketing" , some will use a small motor and a larger pump head so they can claim say....450 psi!
But, in reality, if you use a 2 jet wand with #2 jets, you will have 450 psi Static....and as soon as you pull the trigger you will have 175-225 psi Dynamic.

Dynamic is what counts.

That same 450 psi pump head could be coupled to a 1/2 ho motor and the 450 would only drop to 350-375 if that on the same wand.
Pay attention, and study the details if it matters to you.

 

[The Preacher]

if the porty is auto fill/dump why not use an RX20?

i used a Steamway 900 and loved it. top of the line IMO. if your new porty is anything like those machines you'll do well!

 

[ACE]

I would take a look at the jets on that wand and make sure they are no bigger than 1GPM each. A porty pump can't keep up with much more than that and nether will your inline heaters unless it’s a little giant.

 

[rick imby]

Thanks Greenie and others

With the pump hooked inline with the water from the house will I have any pump issues? The 80 lbs (or about that) of initial pressure coming into the pump should lower the drop in dynamic pressure also I am guessing---that is a theory I am asking. Will it raise the static psi?

So adding a 450 psi pump and having the water pressure feed from the house system directly into the pump would make cleaning faster/better/easier or all three over a 100 psi with the house pressure coming in?

The larger cam is like a larger gear on a bicycle. If the motor can handle the flow allowed by your jets fine,
if the motor can't handle that amount of flow for the motor/cam combination the pressure will drop dramatically once the valve is opened.

The pump/motors are usually rated for the PSI capacity of the pump. The amperage of the motor usually is directly related to the HP of the motor. So a higher pressure pump with a lower amperage motor is less likely to be able to keep it up (hmmm).

Almost none of the equipment gets tested to see if it matches the specs so mfgs can put a 450 psi pump with a 2 amp motor that will only hold 150 psi on .6 gpm flow but they advertise it as a 450psi unit.

Naieve as we are we think the 2 amp 450 psi pump is the Sh** because we want to limit our amps. No objective testing allows us to be suckers.

I'm not saying any of the products in this wonderful industry have specs that are overstated but maybe just a few...


I want the best water sheer, impact, wand-pump-vacuum carpet interface I can come up with in a porty from easily available parts.


---I just got a ticket to Thailand---I am coming back in March leaving Sunday-- Two airlines three plane changes anybody wanna bet my luggage won't get there at the same time as I do? 23+ hours from first takeoff to landing. I will arrive very well rested....

 

[Curtis Pennington]

Trust me you dont want a porty under 400 psi I own 6 various models and all are 400 plus.

 

[John LaBarbera]

Just like Vacuum, FLOW is more important than pressure. But it must be in balance. A high pressure pump is not as effective at 500 psi if the flow is 1/2 gpm. Compare that to 100 psi at 3 gpm. Way better in my opinion. Same concept as a Steaming Demon. High flow low pressure cleans carpet better for less money. Add heat and high flow vacuums and you'll be happy with the results.

 

[Greenie]

With the pump hooked inline with the water from the house will I have any pump issues? The 80 lbs (or about that) of initial pressure coming into the pump should lower the drop in dynamic pressure also I am guessing---that is a theory I am asking. Will it raise the static psi?

In your example, I don't think you will a difference in output.
As long as you have "more than enough" gpm to support the pump's output while flowing open Dynamic pressure, you have what you have...a 1gpm 450psi pump for example.

The Dynamic flow will be determined by the cam size, each revolution is responsible for X amount of displacement, X amount of displacement = X amount of resistance, which requires X amount of torque/horsepower.
So a larger cam and/or pump head is only as valuable as the motor you couple it to.

The pump/motors are usually rated for the PSI capacity of the pump. The amperage of the motor usually is directly related to the HP of the motor. So a higher pressure pump with a lower amperage motor is less likely to be able to keep it up (hmmm).
Yes, you have it.
Which is why i do not favor the smaller (less amp draw) DC motors on our pumps, I'd much rather "pay mother amp" and have a motor that provides energy to spare, ie: a 1/3hp AC motor for a 400psi, or a 1/2hp for a 600psi pump.

Almost none of the equipment gets tested to see if it matches the specs so mfgs can put a 450 psi pump with a 2 amp motor that will only hold 150 psi on .6 gpm flow but they advertise it as a 450psi unit.

Well...to be fair...are they fibbing? If it will indeed provide 450 psi under 02 flow it "can" be called a 450 psi pump.

This is a perfect example where we could learn from the pressure washing industry, we need a Standard, a cleaner should be able to compare machines via the "cleaning units" it is capable of supporting.
Something like pressure x flow will yield a "unit" we can compare with. With such a formula, things like pump flow and horsepower/torque will play a huge role in showing what is really going on at the carpet.

Naieve as we are we think the 2 amp 450 psi pump is the Sh** because we want to limit our amps. No objective testing allows us to be suckers.
true.

I'm not saying any of the products in this wonderful industry have specs that are overstated but maybe just a few...
yup.