Questions for Jim Pemberton about protector

[Mikey P]

We are privileged to have Jim here to answer any technical questions you may have.


Fire away but be patient for your answer, Jim is not on the payroll here

 

[harryhides]

OK, here's a couple to start off. I have a spray booth at my place so that we can use solvent based Protector on some fabrics that we clean "in Plant". I have always understood that Solvent based Protectors are far more effective than water-based.

Is this still true?

How much added Protection does our method of spraying cold Teflon or Scotchgard onto the surface of a carpet or fabric compare to the factory applied and heated method of applying Protector.
IOW if a carpet has lost say 20% of its protective coating as a result of a few years of wear, how much of that lost Protection could we hope to restore by spraying a properly mixed and applied "after market product" ?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I've found solvent based protectors more effective on cellulose material than water based. I also find that the solvent based products work alot better on dry or nearly dry fabric then wet fabrics.

As far as the percentage of protection improvement, I haven't data on that. I'll do some checking. This would be a great one for Bill Yeadon. You out there Bill?

 

[alazo1]

Hello, on the same general topic. Do you recommend your customers to have protectant re-applied at every cleaning?. If not do you do some kind of beading test and how do you do this.

Albert

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Protector durability

According to people I respect in the fluorochemical manufacturing end of our industry, a properly applied treatment should last about 12-18 months in traffic areas before it gets "scratched off" enough to need to be reapplied. Its very, very difficult to "clean off" fluorochemicals (try to clean the staining from your product off of the side of your sprayer, as an example).

This means that if you clean for your customer over that type of time span, reapplying each time might make sense. I doubt you'd need to reapply it from wall to wall, but only traffic areas.

 

[harryhides]

Thanks for those answers Jim.

 

[Guest]

I've found solvent based protectors more effective on cellulose material than water based. I also find that the solvent based products work alot better on dry or nearly dry fabric then wet fabrics.

As far as the percentage of protection improvement, I haven't data on that. I'll do some checking. This would be a great one for Bill Yeadon. You out there Bill?

Jim, Sorry I am a little slow on replying. So much on this board to work through.

Dr. Aziz wrote a lengthy article in Cleanfax several years ago. This does not pertain directly to cellulosic fibers.

"After-market fluorochemical protectors sold as solvent soluble will show better oil and water repellency compared to the water-dispersible type, but will not be as durable when used on carpet and will not have the same level of dry soil resistance........
Furthermore, the fluoropolymer contains nonfluorinated binders that will anchor to any type of fiber and make the finish more durable" Aziz

Aziz is a wizard, if only I could understand half of what he says. Anyhow Jim I agree I think the solvent works wonderfully on cellulosics and drier the better. The trouble is that within a few years solvents will be as available as 8 track tapes.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

And Bill, I bet you've got a collection of some classic eight tracks! Don't put Bill to the test on music trivia......

 

[harryhides]

Dr. Aziz wrote:

"After-market fluorochemical protectors sold as solvent soluble will show better oil and water repellency compared to the water-dispersible type, but will not be as durable when used on carpet and will not have the same level of dry soil resistance........
Furthermore, the fluoropolymer contains nonfluorinated binders that will anchor to any type of fiber and make the finish more durable" Aziz

I can't understand why a Nylon carpet would be any different than a Nylon fabric or is it simply a matter of the amount and kind of wear. Is it just me or have you noticed a difference in the wear rate of fabric in a Jeans wearing family vs a family that wear dresses and slacks ?

Bill in what country did Paul Simon record "Graceland" album and who were his back up musicians and singers and in what country was the editing and mixing done ?

 

[Guest]

Dr. Aziz wrote:

"After-market fluorochemical protectors sold as solvent soluble will show better oil and water repellency compared to the water-dispersible type, but will not be as durable when used on carpet and will not have the same level of dry soil resistance........
Furthermore, the fluoropolymer contains nonfluorinated binders that will anchor to any type of fiber and make the finish more durable" Aziz

I can't understand why a Nylon carpet would be any different than a Nylon fabric or is it simply a matter of the amount and kind of wear. Is it just me or have you noticed a difference in the wear rate of fabric in a Jeans wearing family vs a family that wear dresses and slacks ?

Bill in what country did Paul Simon record "Graceland" album and who were his back up musicians and singers and in what country was the editing and mixing done ?

Mr. Hides,
I believe Paul recorded the album in South Africa and I don't think I have the name right but it was Lady Blacksmith Mambo as backup. Actually I liked Chevy Chase as backup on You Can Call Me Al. Now what famous rock&roller recorded a big album also in a small African nation back in the 70's.

As far as nylon I think most nylon fabrics are used in commercial rather than residential. No dye blockers in fabric like carpet. Isn't it strange that optical brighteners are banned in carpet cleaning but you hear little concern on nylon fabric.

 

[harryhides]

Not bad Bill, this album featured one African singer Miriam Makeba & a trumpeter Hugh Masekela, and vocal group Ladysmith Black Mambazo all from S. Africa.
The video was recorded in Zimbabwe so you can see why it's my alltime fav what with all it's african themes.
Do you know which ancient american group, that inspired the Beatles, sang the title track and which brazilian jungle group ( another fav of mine) sang in the last track ?
If you get all that, then I'll have to get you to try to translate some of the Kwa-Zulu words.

 

[Guest]

Not bad Bill, this album featured one African singer Miriam Makeba & a trumpeter Hugh Masekela, and vocal group Ladysmith Black Mambazo all from S. Africa.
The video was recorded in Zimbabwe so you can see why it's my alltime fav what with all it's african themes.
Do you know which ancient american group, that inspired the Beatles, sang the title track and which brazilian jungle group ( another fav of mine) sang in the last track ?
If you get all that, then I'll have to get you to try to translate some of the Kwa-Zulu words.

I think we may have hijacked this thread from the original intention. The only Brazilian I know is Pele but I know that both the Beatles and S&G loved the Everly Bothers and even Warren Zevon played piano early on in his career.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

You'll like the Bird Room, Bill

Don't worry about it Bill. I started it, after all with my comment about your "rock trivia" expertise. Count on Harry to "pick up the gauntlet" on any intellectual prowess statement on any level (that was said with a smile, Harry)

The Bird Room is a great place for fun and trivia. Despite the comment about "belligerent cleaners", there is some neat stuff there. And also a touching thread about the loss of pets.

Good forsight in putting that room in, Mike.

 

[harryhides]

Busted !!

Trying to get past Bill on music trivia is next to impossible. The guy needs to get a life.............................and a coffee.


The Beatles were going to call themselves the British Everleys they were such fans of Phil and Don that they modelled their distinctive two-part harmonies on the Everleys style.

So Bill, which band is said to be an influence and one reason why they came up with the name - Beetles before becoming the Beatles ?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Buddy Holly and the Crickets........Now move on to the Bird Room.....This is what I get for starting this contest!

 

[Scott S.]

Re: Feel free to ask away!

this post is old.

this question is mainly for jim pemberton. but all answers are welcome.
with me taking jim pembertons worry free upholstry cleaning class and also buying bridgepoints new water based protector with dye-loc, what is better.

which is more likely to bleed?

 

[roro]

Re:

Busted !!

one reason why they came up with the name - Beetles before becoming the Beatles ?

They were tired of being "The Quarrymen" ?? but didn't Jim nail it :?:

roro

 

[Jimmy L]

Re: Feel free to ask away!

Paul 's decline started with that album.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Re: Feel free to ask away!

This is an odd venue in which to answer the question, as the post original post is so old.

Scott:

Bleeding is caused by a number of factors, so preventing the problem can be complex.

Most bleeding issues are caused by slow drying and the presence of highly buffered cleaning detergent residues. This problem is far more likely to occur in cellulose and regenerated cellulose materials, although I've seen bleeding occur in acrylic fibers and even in some acid dyed nylons.

Cleaners who avoid the use of highly buffered cleaning products, rinse out as much of their preconditioning agents as possible, and dry fabrics quickly generally will not run into much in the way of dye bleeding problems.

Acidic rinse agents or dye setting agents such as Dye Loc have been helpful in preventing dye bleeding in some fabrics that might otherwise bleed, but I've not yet found anything that prevents bleeding every time, even dry cleaning solvent.

 

[Scott S.]

Re: Feel free to ask away!

ok so nothing is fool proof.

how do the manufacturers apply typical protectant to upholstery at the mill, without having it bleed?