Reality check?

[Mikey P]

No I have not.

I don't like the frame design on those units. Too many welds to fail and too much vibration.

I'd much rather have the pump and blower sitting on top like Judson and Cobb have.


Most likely Mert was fully intent on buying that C4, he just found a better deal on a good enough unit TCS at the CAD and didn't have the balls or class to tell Les that he was backing out.
IMO he should have been honest about the lower price and offered to reimburse Les for the rush charges.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

*****This is not to bash Judson*******

Thanks Fred for not bashing Judson! We at Judson feel a little bit like Rodney Dangerfield. We just can’t get no respect.

Aside from Marty appearing to have lied to Les (vortex deal fell through)............

The deal with Marty had nothing to do with him deciding not to buy a machine from me or if his Vortex deal fell through or not. The deal with Marty is all about disrespecting the Judson name. You guys do know that we have 26 patents including the truckmount and the wand patent, don’t you?

Les builds a damn fine machine and has corrected what he perceives as weaknesses in others........

but...

are they really weaknesses?

If you are referring to my service advisories that I posted as finding weaknesses in a competitor’s unit, a lot of people thought I was trying to find fault in my competitors. If it came across that way, I want to apologize, but all I was really doing was finding issues and trying to make the issues known in case somebody has a unit like that so they can correct the problems before the problems cost them a lot of money.

For instance, the service bulletin about Butlers; some people got really upset thinking I was picking on Butler, but there were quite a few people who saw my service bulletin and I saved them from buying clutches and blowers due to excess backpressure. They don’t think my service bulletins were a slam on a competitor. Another thing about Butler is that I have probably sold about 50 of them myself, because when someone asks me about a direct drive unit I always recommend a Butler.

Although I would never consider another aluminum freshy where is the harm in aluminum waste? Mine are 20 years old and they are just fine.

We use stainless because it is the best material possible to use. It lasts virtually forever. Most aluminum tanks that I have seen have severe electrolysis inside which pits through the aluminum rapidly. I know there are some things that can be done to control this such as anodes, but we specialize in stainless.

Is the lower HP engine a detriment if it is capable of running the blower at spec lift/rpm? Would my blower run better with a warp drive?

It is nice to have a little extra HP in reserve. As an engine starts developing years and time it starts losing horsepower gradually. This way you will have adequate horsepower when the engine has a lot of hours on it.

How much air can you pull through a glided wand anyway? :wink:

Right around 200 CFM.

Is 500 cfm really enough to dual wand? If not how much air can you pull through a glided wand anyway? Which blowers are capable of that at 150ft? Which engines will run them at that spec? Are parasitic losses overcome with more blower CFM at a given lift?

500 should be adequate for 2 wands. What a lot of people don’t know is that lift is what allows you to run longer hoses, not CFM. I notice a lot of people who have El Diablos with 45 blowers say they dual wand a lot and it is adequate.

If my longest run is a triplewide in Pratville what is the real world difference between a 408 vs. 4l?

The difference between a 408 and 4L is around $800 in cost. The 408 is a tri-lobe blower which is quieter.

Is the real world longevity of a stainless tank (welds :wink: ) justification for an extra 5 Gs or so given that all the other parts have less of a life expectancy? Have you improved the Kohler engine, cat pump, tuthill blower, or LG heater? Seems to me your only sales point in reality is a SS frame and tank..................plenty of other units are "simple"

I’m glad you asked this question, because this is the point I’ve been trying to get across to everyone and nobody seems to get it. There is not a $5,000 price difference between the C-4 stainless steel 150 gallon and a comparable unit using aluminum recovery tanks.

There is a $3500 - $4,000 cost to us to manufacture the stainless c-4 unit over the other unit, but we are not charging that much more for it. What I’m trying to tell everybody is that Judson is offering more truckmount for your money than anyone else in the business. We are actually making about $2500 less profit per sale because we are not passing the total increased cost on to the customer.

I would like to explain this a little bit further. If you take the comparable unit that is advertised for $18,500 and remove the extra reels and hoses that it is advertised with, and compare apples to apples; the same hose, the same wand, etc. a C-4 is advertised for $17,500 with 150 feet of hose and a wand. Once you match the accessories in both units you will see that a C-4 is only about $1,000 dollars more than the comparable unit. Stainless steel has absolutely proven itself with our design. A 30 year old tank looks just as good as the day it was new. It handles vibration better and oil canning effect that all vacuum tanks have due to increase and decrease of vacuum loads.

Judson is the original designer of the simple design. It would be awful nice if we could get credit for that.

Is a properly prepped and coated steel frame that bad?

I only ask cause other units have been referred to as inferior...........just wondering what the "reality" is............

Frame units have been around quite awhile. It is a less expensive way of building a truckmount. Also using aluminum as a recovery tank is about ¼ the cost of stainless. As I had stated in the other threads, I knew that there were bargain truckmounts on the market, I just didn’t realize people were really buying them until Marty made this decision. It kind of woke me up to what the market is wanting, and if that is what the market wants even though it is less expensive, even though it may not have the proven record of the Judson stainless units, we are going to offer a price alternative just like the bargain truckmount manufacturers are doing.

One thing….it will not be a welded 2 inch square tubing frame unit. It will be a ¼ inch plate base bent in a box configuration. Also, it will probably have a Mitey recovery tank with a belt-driven pump out system on it, like we have on our prototype units that have been in operation for 15 years. We have one of these units at Myrtle Beach cleaning hotel rooms and this system has actually had sand going through it for all these years. The recovery tank on this unit is actually a PVC pipe that is 4 feet long. Fred, thanks for all these questions. I hope this clears up the reality of truckmounts for you.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Thanks Les.

 

[SMRBAP]

****** not bashing anybody *******


I have had amazing TM's, decent TM's, and have had boat anchor TM's.

My amazing TM's have been my prochem units. I have 4 P/C TM's w a combined 6500 hrs on them. To date, not counting fluid changes and reg scheduled maint., I have changed 3 belts (myself $70 and 2-3 hrs), rebuilt one water pump (myself for $80 and 2 hrs), replaced the bleeder valve on my everest's helicoil ($10 and 10 minutes), replaced all the waste tank lid gaskets once ($50 each and an hr each), and one failed WT float (maybe $80 and 15 minutes). (KNOCKING ON WOOD...LOL). Totaling $280 and maybe 10 hrs of my time, for 6500 hrs of machine time. Maybe I got lucky and all my machines were built on Wednesday (you Harley guys will understand that one best...lol), but I am truly not that lucky.

Would I give up anything on those machines to save $280 and 10 hrs over the course of 6500 machine hrs?

No way, not even gauge illumination.

However, I maintain my equip. as it is supposed to be, and take great care of it - I lube my blowers nightly, clean the final wt filters 2x weekly even if they don't need it, drain and hose out the wt's nightly, etc etc.

Is that the difference between needing a more simple design or not - maybe. Maybe that depends on each individual and how they treat their gear - or maybe it's the folks who chose the wrong TM.


On to the wrong TM,...... until I completely reworked my Chemspec 860, ( I know, I know, my first TM, my first yr in biz, sucked in by my disty....) and I mean everything, made new mounts for the pump and apo, reinforced the frame and motor mounts, re-ran all of the electrical and plumbing, reworked the entire heat diversion system, and replaced all of the switches - the thing wouldn't run for 40 hrs without something going down. Even now - I still am wrenching on it enough that it's only a back-up machine, and it may eventually end up just a flood sucker. It's a PERFECT example of a machine that would be better judsonified. 3000 PSI CAT pump, 4 cyl nissan, roots 59, and a belt driven jabsco apo that would pump a small dog through the 1" output if it ended up in the wt - however, all held together with bubblegum and duct tape, sitting on the worst plumbing system ever designed, and with electric runs personally fitted by ray charles himself.

The point I am making is yes - there are a ton of TM's out there with poor design, or could be better design - where the simple design option would make sense for the long haul, forfieting the free heat and other bells and whistles. Until we are down to the best of the best in TM manufacturer's - the simple design will always be the better alternative to the problematic TM's with design flaws.

But there are options out there with strong design and engineering that allow you to retain that free heat, and those bells and whistles - if you are willing to maintain it.

Just my opinion, but it seems to be more of a "buy smart for your specific needs and how you'll treat your gear" thing more than a "one system being the better of two options" thing.

I have been considering contacting Judson to see what they might be able to frankenstein me out of my Chemspec 860 for a flood pumper that will last me a long time.

There is a shoe to fit every foot - but me personally - unless my current brand goes way downhill in the years to come - I just can't see a better fit for my operation than what I am currently using.

 

[ruff]

Les,
Thanks for the explanation.
Just a little advise from your liberal friend from the left coast.

I would rather support someone like you than buy from one of the large manufacturers.

However, and I understand that it is a business decision and I respect it, you don't offer enough alternatives.

Take me for example.
I am buying a ProChem Apex.
Why?
I have a sprinter and I do not want three different sources of gas.
I don't care that propane is hotter. Not an issue for me. I also like it that ProChem have been around for a long time and not likely (but who knows) to go under. You have been around for a long time too. (Rumors are that Judson has the patent for the hills )

If you would have carried a unit that would have catered to me (diesel, heat exchange) I certainly would have considered buying from you. On the other hand I understand that the market place for you may not justify it. However, I, and I think quite a few others, prefer doing business with smaller companies. They are more like us.

No matter what their political beliefs are

As long as they are polite and you always are

 

[Eric Valentine]

Judson does make one heat exchanger unit, the Reactor. It seems that it's not listed on the site.

 

[Ryan]

Les,
Thanks for the explanation.
Just a little advise from your liberal friend from the left coast.

I would rather support someone like you than buy from one of the large manufacturers.

However, and I understand that it is a business decision and I respect it, you don't offer enough alternatives.

Take me for example.
I am buying a ProChem Apex.
Why?
I have a sprinter and I do not want three different sources of gas.
I don't care that propane is hotter. Not an issue for me. I also like it that ProChem have been around for a long time and not likely (but who knows) to go under. You have been around for a long time too. (Rumors are that Judson has the patent for the hills )

If you would have carried a unit that would have catered to me (diesel, heat exchange) I certainly would have considered buying from you. On the other hand I understand that the market place for you may not justify it. However, I, and I think quite a few others, prefer doing business with smaller companies. They are more like us.

No matter what their political beliefs are

As long as they are polite and you always are

http://www.tcsatl.com/chiefdiesel.html

One fuel source.....

 

[ruff]

Eric, it is listed but they use a regular gas engine, so I will still need two sources of gas, as the sprinter has a diesel engine.

Ryan, Thank you. The problem with TCS is that I've never heard much about them. (Until the Marty Killer killer, kill the killer sad thread.) They don't have anyone local.

So I'd rather pay a little more and get something that has more backing and reputation. And is, touch wood, hopefully more dependable.
In my book dependability/reliability trumps any other feature in a truck mount by a long distance.

Disclosure- I know nothing about TCS, so this is by no means a put down.

 

[amazingcleansc]

http://www.tcsatl.com/chiefdiesel.html

One fuel source.....

are those things smokey as hell?