restorers sue for tortious interference

steve g

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steve garrett
I have been getting sick and tired of adjusters showing up on my job and talking the customer into using their vendor. There is so much back scratching and butt kissing that goes on in my industry, this is costing me thousands of $$$ a year in lost business. most of the time I even have a signed authorization for the work. so what I am going to do is just start filing lawsuits for tortious interference which is interfering with a contract. I will make up an estimate for the work then sue for half the total amount. I plan to do this is small claims court which costs me like $70 bucks to file and serve the lawsuit. I may not win but I would wager it could really shake up how claims are handled in my area. I also know the owners of 2 other companies in my area that feel exactly the way I do. I am going to talk to them and if possible get them to participate in my plan. What the insurance companies are doing is wrong and IMO illegal. It will cost the insurance companies at least 2k to defend each lawsuit regardless if I win or not, they will have to pay an attorney to build their case, gather info from the adjuster, imagine how much a PIA this could be for an insurance company. What I would like to hear from you guys is what evidence and proof could I gather to help me with my case. so I could actually potentially win the case. some companies are worse that others but at the top of my list are, safeco, farmers, travelers. If I had 2 other companies doing the same thing in my area. it would change the way claims are handled, restorers have talked about legislation to prevent the vendor shanigans colorado even has a law for it, but it has no penalty. we don't need legislation we need lawsuits.
 

steve g

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I think your right but keep in mind the insurance company has no idea what evidence I have or don't have. it will cost them a bunch of money just to defend it. to me it will soon become easier just to knock off the shanigans. or at the very least if they see my company has been on the job to leave it alone.
 

RickL

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you mentioned signed authorization form. I would think if you had that or something else signed by the customer it would certainly help your case or at least raise some suspicions in any reasonable judges mind.
I'm not in that industry but it would certainly frost my @#% to.

Good luck
ps: I'm not much help but I sympathize
 

Desk Jockey

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It's a sneaky, low life, thing to do............I love it! :mrgreen:


Not sure it it will work. However if it's as easy as you've said, it does have a chance to change how things are handled. I don't see how you can lose, they are already recommending your competition so it's not like you're risking business loss from them.

It doesn't ensure you will get more work though, you might just be backing the dogs up a bit.

I guess if nothing else you'll make them chase their tails for a while. :lol:
 

SDSinc

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Would you be worried about alienating yourself from the adjusters in the future?
 

ronbeatty

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Steve, I have had similar issues and would be glad to help. I am in litigation with a insurance company, that will not pay the entire invoice for a job I completed. I think it would be a great idea to investigate the tortious interference as a remedy to this common practice by insurance carriers.
 

Hoody

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Hey Steve,

With Farmers here I've mainly dealt with Shawn. He's a younger guy close to my age, and he is really easy to work with. I've had only one Farmers adjuster ever give me any crap here. The company I was working for does a lot of volume of WDR work, they're a Chavez sized company. I already established the relationship with homeowner, and already made it clear THEY choose who they use, not the insurance company. When that one Farmers adjuster tried bullying me off the job I waited till we both got outside away from the homeowner. I said something to the effect of this: Look sir, I understand you prefer to use your vendors, but I'm going to give the same if not better service at a reasonable price, and not nickel and dime you. I want to make this claim easy for you and for me, and take care of your policy holder. I don't appreciate trying to be strong armed out of a claim, especially when you tell the homeowner you can guarantee my work. You do know what you said violates the Fair Trade Act, don't you ? His eyes just got really big. The last thing I said to him was I look forward to working with you to render this claim quickly. I mentioned you do have preferred contractors for the rebuilding portion, and informed them they should talk with you about setting that up, or I have one that I can refer. I worked with him a few times after that without any hiccups.
 

tmdry

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My previous experience was working in Florida during hurricane season, I went to many litigations w/ clients, and always won. It sucks that it has to get to that point because by than you're already waiting very long to get any $, but if it does come to that the state will always be in favor of the consumer and not the insurance co. Also, many cases the adjuster or someone above him will show up to the meeting, look look at your paper work, and tell you it's not worth going thru the litigation, they'll accept your numbers if it makes sense. Most of the time they're just stretching the payments out as much as they can so they can save as much $ as possible, the old game.
 

Shorty

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I don't know how the law works over there, but, what I would be concerned about is the insurance industry refusing more work to you.

Also, say the insurance company does manage to win the court case, would you not have to pay all their fees as well as your own.

I would seek genuine legal advice before doing something you may regret.

Ooroo,

:roll:
 

Dolly Llama

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Shorty Down Under said:
I would seek genuine legal advice before doing something you may regret.

that's the smartest post on this thread


Steve, we don't do WD, but doesn't the "homeowner" get to decide who they use??


..L.T.A.
 

steve g

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meAt said:
Shorty Down Under said:
I would seek genuine legal advice before doing something you may regret.

that's the smartest post on this thread


Steve, we don't do WD, but doesn't the "homeowner" get to decide who they use??


..L.T.A.

yeah the customer does get to decide who they use, but the problem is the adjuster shows up. the people are worried to death about the damage to their home, they just want it fixed. the adjuster implies that they have people the insured need to use, they conveniently leave out that the customer can decide who they want to use. many people think the insurance company has the power to choose the contractor. This IMO is abusing the power they have. the adjuster after all is paying the bill, to a homeowner this is substantial power to control who gets the loss. a few months back the adjuster set and appointment with an insured one afternoon for early the next morning, she must have called the other contractor that afternoon to met her the next morning on the loss. they both show up at the home. fortunately the customer liked us a lot and we got to do all the work. but the point is to the customer thinks adjuster has all power. one thing I am wondering is what does it take to get a call in the afternoon by an adjuster to met them on a loss the next morning, when they will not even return my phone calls. lets keep in mind I have never had complaints to any insurance company that we did poor work. so I don't have a bad reputation. I am starting to wonder what type of bribes are going on. I am also going to look at the legality of offering them myself. of course consulting an attorney to see if its legal or not, trip to hawaii, car lease for personal use?? I wonder if these are the bribes people are being offered. I try to talk to adjusters about being a vendor and they just laugh at me. they have companies breathing down their neck all the time looking for work. all I want is to be treated fairly and what is happening in our industry isn't fair. if I don't have a signed authorization then they do have the right to recommend someone although they normally even misuse this right. I have had adjusters flat out tell me they kick contractors off the job. WTF what gives them that right. I am pissed off because in the last week 10 grand in business has been redirected to "vendors" the adjusters recommended. I have signed authorizations on both jobs. you tell me would YOU lay back and just take it??
 

Goomer

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steve g said:
yeah the customer does get to decide who they use, but the problem is the adjuster shows up. the people are worried to death about the damage to their home, they just want it fixed. the adjuster implies that they have people the insured need to use, they conveniently leave out that the customer can decide who they want to use. many people think the insurance company has the power to choose the contractor.

Have you tried to educate the customer in advance, as to their rights in choosing what company they will use, and to the tactics they should expect

from the adjuster to change their minds, and the motives behind them?
 

steve g

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goomes said:
steve g said:
yeah the customer does get to decide who they use, but the problem is the adjuster shows up. the people are worried to death about the damage to their home, they just want it fixed. the adjuster implies that they have people the insured need to use, they conveniently leave out that the customer can decide who they want to use. many people think the insurance company has the power to choose the contractor.

Have you tried to educate the customer in advance, as to their rights in choosing what company they will use, and to the tactics they should expect

from the adjuster to change their minds, and the motives behind them?

of course I have done that and continue to do that, you guys think doing that is just easily done. put yourself in a customers shoes they just want their house fixed they don't wanna get in a fight with the insurance company, many people are under the impression if it costs more to fix that is that much more their premiums go up. customers don't want to get into the politics of our industry they just want their house fixed. the insurance adjuster who is paying the bill recommends someone, this is very very powerful and persuasive to a customer.
 

Shorty

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Steve, I don't want to come across as a smart arse or some such thing, but can you please seperate your sentences and paragraphs.

It makes these old eyes sore trying to read your posts.

:idea: Maybe that's an eyesore :?: :oops: shiteatinggrin

Ta mate.

Ooroo,

:roll:
 

ronbeatty

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Steve, I have talked to my attorney, If you have a signed work authorization/contract and the insurance company interferes, you will have a case for interference. You need to find an attorney who is a real barracuda and dislikes insurance companies. Most will work on a percentage, which works well for you if your intent is to stop this loss of work from continuing. By the way, the next opportunity I get, I will do the same. shiteatinggrin
 
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Why shouldn't the adjuster recommend a service professional?

What if you are a 39.95 5 room hack and Mrs. Piff calls you to do a flood job?

Are you going to sue the insurance company for cutting you off?

The insurance company has a right to make sure a real professional is on the job. If you are certified etc, just kick back a little more than the next guy.

That is why I don't do this type of work. There is too much ass kissing involved. If I were serious about doing it though, I would hire a bunch of sluts to take care of any adjuster I wanted to get work from (male or female :shock: ) and put a big wad of cash in their hand. Then I would say return the favor.
 

tmdry

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There are no bribes, first you need to understand how the adjusters get paid. It's simple, the ones telling the HO they must use their vendors is someone that works locally for the ins co and his job is to save all the money they can from the get go. When you get to larger scale losses to massive destruction involving entire zip codes/states, most of the time you will have adjusters that come from different areas who work independently, these adjusters are usually paid more for putting out more. Meaning they will agree with you if they can see you're the company for the job, most of the time they are very nice and never give you a hard time. The ideal ones to work with.

Unfortunatelly, we can't be everywhere when the adjuster shows up. One thing that helped was telling them "as soon as you hear anything call me and let me know, especially when the adjuster comes to look at the loss". Telling this from the get go shows HO you're there for them. We also tell them about their rights as a policy holder and the tricks that ins co's might do during the claim process.

Think this way, they want to save as much $ as possible. When you have 10-50 losses ranging from 2-10k to 50-100k min a month (small) residential only, than the ins co is trying to see what is the most lucrative and beneficial way for them to cut payouts.

At the end of the day, they do not "care" as much as they make it sound that the HO should use a "qualified" vendor, as most know some of these vendors aren't doing the best work and most have worked out a volume pricing, that is all it matters to the ins co. They'll make the HO "believe" you're getting a great co if you go w/ one of the vendors, but at the back of adjuster's mind, they're thinking what do I have to do to save my co $ at this loss. Even though adjusters are going to courses for WD, they still have to follow the corporate rules. There are many vendors who never been to a WD class as well, don't think they're all certified, they might be certified in the "insurace co's mind".

There's no rule in the HO's policy that they must go with what an adjuster tells them to, also there is also nothing in the policy that demands HO's to get 3 estimates and send to claims dept, all the HO is doing is the adjuster's job, using the HO to save them time, and make it look like they're doing the right thing.
 

TimP

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This is the exact reason why I got out of water restoration. Too much hassle for sure. If it ever got to the point where it was fair and honest I'd be interested in getting into it.
 

steve g

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danielc said:
Why shouldn't the adjuster recommend a service professional?

What if you are a 39.95 5 room hack and Mrs. Piff calls you to do a flood job?

Are you going to sue the insurance company for cutting you off?

The insurance company has a right to make sure a real professional is on the job. If you are certified etc, just kick back a little more than the next guy.

That is why I don't do this type of work. There is too much ass kissing involved. If I were serious about doing it though, I would hire a bunch of sluts to take care of any adjuster I wanted to get work from (male or female :shock: ) and put a big wad of cash in their hand. Then I would say return the favor.

actually its not the job of the insurance company to qualify the contractor, its the home owners risk and responsibility to make sure they choose the right company. if that was the case the insurance company aught to be providing a warranty for what the contractor did. this is the crack in the vendor programs that needs to be exposed, people need to start suing the insurance companies for the mistakes the vendors have made.
 

joeynbgky

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I know a few WD companies that put adjusters on their payroll. Of course we know this is going on, but whos going to stop it? I exposed one for an insurance company 6 months ago... It's crazy! My office is right next door to a statefarm office. My Landlord is an agent! It's so funny because all of the big name companies are alwasy in there giving out free pens and goodies every week.. Don't they get the hint shes not going to use them? This agents husband does WD work, but she can't refer anyone to him and won't because of the conflict of interest. She always tells the homeowners to pick who they want to! And never refers anyone. The adjusters on the other hand, you know they do.
 

dealtimeman

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Steve I am not sure how it is done in Utah buy here in Texas when the adjuster comes out he or she is by law supposed to hand a document to th the insured stating the both the right to choose who wil repair the damage and a waiver saying they don't warranty the work that will be done.

I just start by educating the customer, by telling them a erything the adjuster is going to throw at them step by step. When done correctly most, not all, customers will stay with us. I also take time to explain preferred vendor program to the insured ( takes five minutes) and how the insurance company just wants to save all the money possible and sometimes tells the company what they can and cannot do. This will be an eye opener for the insured and now they are prepared when the adjuster comes out and does exactly what I told the homeowner what he was going to say. Again there has been a few times even this has not worked.
 

TimP

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The thing you have to remember is who is the insured going to believe. Their adjuster who works for their insurance company or some guy who wants to get in your home so that they can make money off of your loss. Put yourself in the insureds shoes and think about it. And then think about the adjusters saying, if you don't go with our preferred vendors we can't guarantee anything. And in some cases they are right to say this because there are many hacks out there and many problems have happened. So think about what you're trying to do and what kind of situation you're putting the client into. I've been there and have gone through it, and luckily the insured called me back and told the franchise guys to go home once they figured out that the adjuster wasn't telling the truth.

But there were other instances where a loss happened and they call the insurance company and they tell them who they "want" or "have" to use and you never even have the opportunity. I heard of at least 5 instances in the year I had equipment to do it and only had 1 opportunity to do the work and had to fight for it like I stated above. I decided I wasn't going to get the work and got out of it, otherwise I'd still be doing the work because the pay is great.
 

steve g

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TimP said:
The thing you have to remember is who is the insured going to believe. Their adjuster who works for their insurance company or some guy who wants to get in your home so that they can make money off of your loss. Put yourself in the insureds shoes and think about it. And then think about the adjusters saying, if you don't go with our preferred vendors we can't guarantee anything. And in some cases they are right to say this because there are many hacks out there and many problems have happened. So think about what you're trying to do and what kind of situation you're putting the client into. I've been there and have gone through it, and luckily the insured called me back and told the franchise guys to go home once they figured out that the adjuster wasn't telling the truth.

But there were other instances where a loss happened and they call the insurance company and they tell them who they "want" or "have" to use and you never even have the opportunity. I heard of at least 5 instances in the year I had equipment to do it and only had 1 opportunity to do the work and had to fight for it like I stated above. I decided I wasn't going to get the work and got out of it, otherwise I'd still be doing the work because the pay is great.

wise words from someone who obviously knows.
 

dealtimeman

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i understand where both of you are coming from (tim and steve) but, alt least for me, it has been like that from before i got in wdr. you take what is dealt you and try to make lemonade. for the most part it has worked.

i know and feel steves frustration but i dont know how you could take insurance companies to court ten times or more in a year. it will get costly, both money wise and time wise.

because my job loss rate is low ( at least i think it is low and acceptable) i just chalk it up to a percentage of acceptable loss and move on. i would rather use time and resources on getting more work instead of dwelling on work that "should " of been mine. by doing this you will grow your biz and not burn bridges you might need in the future.
 

Al

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I had just done a blog post on this subject,

Why you should choose Al’s Absolute Best Cleaning and Restoration Services!
Plain and simple when it comes to Disaster Restoration Al’s Absolute Best is the Absolute best choice because we are consumer advocates. You see, many insurance companies use Preferred Contractors to handle their clients (you the homer owners) water and fire loss claims.

These preferred contractors work for reduced prices in exchange for free advertising from the insurance company. That’s not the way we at Al’s Absolute Best operate. We believe there is a conflict of interest when the insurance company hires the contractor.

That’s why we became consumer advocates! We are professional restorers and consultants we can give you a detailed inspection and explain the whole restoration process from handling the insurance claim to bringing your home to pre-loss and healthy conditions.
There is a term called LKQ its stands for like, kind and quality and that’s how your home should be restored with LKQ materials but no corners should be cut where health is concerned. That’s how were different, that’s why were different! Did you know it’s a federal law that you may choose any restoration company you like? The same goes for your automotive insurance claims.
Below is the consumers Bill of Rights, this is compiled from exerts that are in every home owners insurance policy and reworded in layman’s terms.

Al’s Absolute Best Cleaning and Restoration
presents the
Insured Bill of Rights


YOU MAY TAKE AND BE FULLY COMPENSATED FOR THE COST OF EMERGENCY STEPS TO SAFEGUARD YOUR PROPERTY FROM FURTHER DAMAGE AFTER A LOSS.
In fact you have the obligation to do so under the terms of your policy. The insurance company may not be liable for additional expenses if you fail to provide such protection.

IF YOU HAVE SECURED ADEQUATE COVERAGE, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO BE PAID FOR THE FAIR COST OF FULLY RESTORING YOUR HOME TO ITS PRE-DAMAGED CONDITION.
You are, however, not insured for the repair of unrelated problems such as code deficiencies and or prior damage.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO EMPLOY AND SHOULD INSIST UPON A FULLY LICENSED AND INSURED REPAIR FIRM OF GOOD REPUTATION.
If you choose not to employ such a firm, the consequences and liability for any injury, damage or other actions will rest with you.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO EMPLOY A FIRM WITH SUFFICIENT EXPERIENCE AND STABILITY IN THE COMMUNITY TO STAND BEHIND ITS WORK AND WARRANTY RESPONSIBILITIES.
The repair contract and its execution is strictly between you and the contractor. Your insurance company does not warrant or guarantee the performance of any firm you hire.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP FULLY EQUIVALENT TO YOUR EXISTING INSTALLATION IN “LIKE KIND AND QUALITY”.
The insurance company has no obligation to improve your existing installation.

YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ACCEPT THE LOWEST BIDDER. NOWHERE IN YOUR POLICY DO THE WORDS “CHEAPEST”, “LOW”, OR “LOWEST PRICE” OCCUR.
Repair rates should correspond to prevailing standards in your area for work of good quality.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE A DETAILED LISTING OF THE SCOPE OF REPAIRS AND QUANTITIES OF MATERIALS TO BE PROVIDED, BEFORE WORK BEGINS.
Provision for hidden or latent problems relating to the damage should be spelled out in as much detail as possible.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO AND SHOULD REJECT ANY CONTRACT THAT DOES NOT INCORPORATE ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION WORK.
You must be familiar with these requirements in order to enjoy the protection the law provides. Contact a Professional Restoration Contractor for this important information.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO SELECT A FIRM WHO CAN DEMONSTRATE SKILL AND EXPERIENCE IN INSURANCE DAMAGE REPAIR AS A FULL TIME PROFESSIONAL SERVICE.
Ask for references, credentials, and association memberships that indicate professional training and status in insurance repair, as contrasted with ordinary home improvement work.

IF SUBSTANTIAL DISAGREEMENT ARISES BETWEEN YOU AND THE INSURANCE COMPANY OVER THE AMOUNT OF THE LOSS, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO REQUEST ARBITRATION (APPRAISAL) AS DESCRIBED UNDER THE TERMS OF THE POLICY LINES 123-140 OF THE STANDARD HOMEOWNERS FORM WHICH SPELLS OUT THE PROCEDURES FOR SETTLING DIFFERENCES WITHOUT RESORTING TO LAWSUIT.
The insurance company is also entitled to this provision, which may be invoked at any time prior to settlement, regardless of whether or not you have received advanced payments.

YOU ARE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE PAYMENT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY WITHIN THE TIME SPECIFIED BY THE POLICY AND YOUR STATE INSURANCE REGULATIONS, WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO PREVENT INSURANCE COMPANIES FROM USING DELAY AND PERSONAL HARDSHIP TO COMPEL A LOWER SETTLEMENT.
The policy also has time requirements for the policyholder, within which you must prepare and submit your claim. Ask your adjuster about these requirements at the outset so that you can be in compliance.

8)
 

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