Rug Wash Tubs....?

Mikey P

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if our laundry can be cleaned in a tub with other dirty garments, why not a dirty rug?

Ken? Randy?


what are your feelings about tub washing?


maybe Tom can chime in about who uses tubs and what can and can't be cleaned in one..
 

T Monahan

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http://www.centrum-force.com/washing-tub.html

One concern I would furnish:

We give warnings about tufted rugs with glue backings. As a general policy for our cleaning operations, we do not wash tufted rugs that have latex glue and a scrim backing as part of their construction in our Centrum Force wash tub. Having said that, we may on occasion specifically select or ‘cherry pick’ a well manufactured tufted rug and wash it that way. (Albeit, not for a prolonged length of time) Problematic is the glue in many of these rugs. The adhesive in most of these rugs sold in our marketplace will release into the water. Hence, damage can occur to the rug with such thorough washing that is done in the wash tub. The operator must use critical discernment concerning which rugs can be submitted to this treatment. Therefore, we personally, in our rug wash operations, choose to tediously floor wash most of these rugs as our general policy.

Urine contamination makes this type of rug especially problematic to eradicate completely. In severe urine contamination, we address the glue and wash it away as part of the protocol that involves U-Turn treatment to the rug as well. New adhesive and a new scrim backing are applied if this procedure is accepted by the client. Generally, it is a better value for the client to replace the rug than go through all that is involved.

The following are pictures of wash tubs. The Big One is at Rug Renovators in NYC. One of the pictures shows 3 wash tubs of our style in one plant. (I don't recommend how the one operator was loading the rug in from behind the paddle wheel)

View attachment 531View attachment 532View attachment 533

I will post up more pictures and videos if desire Mikey. (I have to change some of the file sizes and formats) I have some from Woven Legends in Turkey and some 40-50 plants in North America that use the Centrum Force system too.

Note: I have made videos showing that we have washed tufted rugs in a wash tub. However, extreme caution should be exercised if you try it yourself. The inherit problem of glue washing away creates more work and cost to repair than the rug may be worth.
 
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Mikey P

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Feel free to post up any and all rug cleaning information you may have Tom


If you can do so with out it coming across as a sales pitch, all the better.

This forum is first and foremost all about knowledge.


btw, is there a forum just for Rug cleaners?

dustbin used to have one but when his true intentions became clear everyone left..
 

T Monahan

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These pictures I took when visiting Turkey. These big wash tubs are located in the Woven Legends facility. They wash multiple rugs at a time.

Wash Tubs have been in use for many years in many places. Centrum Force produces their version in the USA for rug washers as another tool to get the best job done. The previous picture posted that I made showed 3 of our version in one plant. That specific in-plant operation has two Moore machines staged in sequence to provide the rinsing for every rug that comes out of their 3 wash tubs. They do on an average of 28K rugs a year this way.
 
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T Monahan

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Some have wondered how clean is clean when washing a rug. Sometimes this concern has overwhelmed reasonable expectations. When it came to the issue of whether or not a wash tub was effective for washing rugs, an argument was launched to discredit its use by asserting cross-contamination would occur. More clamors have been made about this matter than dirty underwear being mixed with other linens in one’s own washing machine at home.

When some made comparisons to use with washing clothes and other textiles it did not seem to provide enough satisfactory reasoning. So I ran the argument by large laundry processing plants that dealt with this issue of clean and healthy textiles everyday for years. Several company owners actually came to my shop to witness how we processed rugs. They were humored by the remarks on the carpet and rug forum boards after I showed them how people would argue to discredit the wash tub. Their huge facilities utilize large washing machines that can contain 100s of pounds of unsanitary hospital and hotel bed linens, and other garments. They process them all at the same time in the same water with chemistry. To quote one big time operator in the Maryland/DC area about all this falderal being made, he simply said, ‘people obviously don’t understand chemistry. Let the water and chemistry do their job.’

Nonetheless, Centrum Force® decided to test an extreme situation in the realm of rugs. Even though we don’t wear rugs like a set of underwear, or use them for bedding to sleep on, we nonetheless have them in our home or place of business and in general walk, crawl or lay on them. So to return a healthy rug back to the consumer was important to us. We wanted a scientific conclusion to the assertions being made about cross-contamination in a Centrum Force® wash tub.

In short, this is what I did at my facility. We used an independent testing firm that field tested as well as lab tested the results each step along the way. (We used Michael Pinto of Wonder Makers Environmental http://www.wondermakers.com)

View attachment 541View attachment 542View attachment 543

The purpose of this project was to provide proof, by scientific data, on whether or not cross-contamination would take place when multiple rugs are washed in the same time. Furthermore; we desired to establish a protocol for how we would do cleaning in our little rug shop using the tools and chemistry available to us. The details of the results were only past on to other Centrum Force® equipment owners. We paid for the testing and we are not interested in giving it away free on public forums or blogs.

First: We bought a new handmade Tibetan rug and submitted it to raw sewage for 7 days in a sealed plastic bag. See picture of it bagged and in my rug pit. Next we opened the bag and got a field reading of all contaminates that were in the rug and sectioned out a piece of that rug and shipped it for offsite testing.

Next: We treated it with U-Turn and allowed a dwell period and flushed it out in the centrifuge with rinse water.

The wash tub was prepared for normal use. One cup of Di-Chor (typical product used in swimming pools and hot tubs), one quart of Secret Sauce, and one quart of Knock-Out. A brand new uncontaminated rug was put into the wash tub and the sewage contaminated rug was put in as well after it was flushed by rinse in the centrifuge. (The sewage contaminated rug still had high levels of unhealthy contaminates in it after flushing, although reduced from levels we had when it came out of the bag.) Even with high readings on containments on sewage rug, we nonetheless washed both rugs in the same tub simultaneously for a period of time – 90 minutes. We were testing each respective rug at specific increments of time during the duration of a wash.

We finished the process by centrifugal spinning and drying.

Summary: Without going into all the proprietary numbers and other test results, one thing came out clear that is relevant to this thread that I will share publicly. NO cross-contamination took place. We thought it was worthwhile to have someone else, in another facility do a science test that would follow similar protocol. It was done by another wash tub owner. The result: Consistent results that demonstrate the conclusion. There was no cross-contamination.

I would offer a warning: Although we believe sewage damaged rugs can be remedied and returned safe to the customer, please do not deduce from what was revealed in this post that it is accomplished by the only procedures I revealed. To note, chemistry and drying rugs quickly with high heat are essential elements needed to be successful.

Follow us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/CentrumForce
 
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T Monahan

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This video shows how, in my rug washing facility, we use our wash tub as a tool in the wash phase or rug care:

[video=youtube_share;wn1gvcqmyaA]http://youtu.be/wn1gvcqmyaA[/video]
 

The Great Oz

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if our laundry can be cleaned in a tub with other dirty garments, why not a dirty rug?
Washing your dirty dress shirts together isn't the same as washing your dirty dress shirts with your greasy coveralls or your Levis. Put two shop towels in the washer with a load of spotting towels and you end up with a load of shop towels.

A wash tub likely needs the same type of common sense. At some point you'd have to figure out where the dirt load gets to be too much and change out your water.
 

T Monahan

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“Common sense” or is it, un-common sense?

Let me add: We are not advocating using a typical homeowner’s washing machine designed for clothes, followed by using popular grocery store style detergents, as a way to wash rugs. Otherwise, the shop towel illustration may be a valid point.

Our 1200 gallon paddle wheel wash tub is a fabulous tool for totally wetting down, and washing rugs, in preparation to do whatever else that may be necessary to improve its cleanliness and appearance. The rug may often merit additional techniques to address stubborn, unwanted visually clinging deposits. Furthermore, it would be common to use techniques on a wash floor that may include power washing, rotary or counter-rotating cylinder brushes to agitate the chemistry that was already introduced in the rug from spending time washing in the tub.

Let me be clear, to get the best results, we advocate our products for washing. They have been designed and blended to accomplish much good for tub washing rugs. We use colloidal micelles, which breaks down long-chain hydrocarbon bonds in fats, oils, and grease (FOG) and holds them in suspension when mixed with water. (As an untended consequence, our client’s have found our chemistry to work exceptionally well for household laundering of clothes and linens.) The action of chemistry, combined with the water turbulence caused by the paddle wheel plays an important role for getting the soil to release off the textile and go into suspension in the water. Using our centrifuge, while rinsing/flushing the rug with clean water, creates a synergy with the wash tub that is hard to improve upon for achieving a clean rug.
 
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LisaWagnerCRS

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There is something that will always be an "ick" factor to a consumer about a process like this. I may have no problem mingling my laundry with those of my loved ones - but a stranger's... yeah... not so much. It may happen at a dry cleaners, but as a consumer I don't want to know about it, no matter how "cross-contamination" may be likely or not.

In San Diego they are trying to pass the idea of filtering sewage water to make it drinkable - and all of the tests that show it is possible to get it to that level of "no contamination"... but again... that is never going to be an idea ever supported by consumers.

So where "reports" may help in this arena, I'm not sure "proprietary reports" can fly when combined with the "ick" factor. But, that's me speaking with my marketing hat on more so than my rug cleaner hat. I'm just not a fan of the concept, though it may be perfect for others. That's what's great about this country "choice"... yet as this industry consolidates more and more... it looks like choice is going away.

Lisa
 

SamIam

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There is something that will always be an "ick" factor to a consumer about a process like this. I may have no problem mingling my laundry with those of my loved ones - but a stranger's... yeah... not so much. It may happen at a dry cleaners, but as a consumer I don't want to know about it, no matter how "cross-contamination" may be likely or not.

In San Diego they are trying to pass the idea of filtering sewage water to make it drinkable - and all of the tests that show it is possible to get it to that level of "no contamination"... but again... that is never going to be an idea ever supported by consumers.

So where "reports" may help in this arena, I'm not sure "proprietary reports" can fly when combined with the "ick" factor. But, that's me speaking with my marketing hat on more so than my rug cleaner hat. I'm just not a fan of the concept, though it may be perfect for others. That's what's great about this country "choice"... yet as this industry consolidates more and more... it looks like choice is going away.

Lisa

They already do it in Orange County! Desalinization and other ways to get water where theres no water naturally. You do what You must or move. 100 percent recycling is already here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/s...er-used-for-drinking.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
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Ken Snow

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Desalination is not comparable to filtering sewage water. It is simply removing the excess salt.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

SamIam

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Desalination is not comparable to filtering sewage water. It is simply removing the excess salt.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I know that Ken its just another way to get fresh water from sea water, read the link I posted it confirms they are already treating sewage water back to drinking water.
 

T Monahan

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The context of this post, and the subsequent replies I make regarding it, has to do with hardware to the audience here on Mikeys Board. This discussion is about how professional cleaners view the utilization of hardware and techniques to clean textiles.

Having said that, in my personal cleaning business, I do have rug cleaning client's that marvel and appreciate our wash tub. They understand what is going on. Perhaps they have seen many TV commercials illustrating textiles being washed together in a washing machine with their brand featured soap. Who doesn’t remember ‘ring-around-the-collar’ or the grass-stained sweaty play clothes all ending up in the wash together. The public did not get in an uproar over mixing clothes together. How is it rugs are more holy and delicate? (Note: There is the matter of managing those rugs that have dye bleed or dye migration issues. But, that is where the talented rug washer using our system of wash and additives comes in to play)
 

T Monahan

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I had some visitors to our little shop recently. I showed them first hand the value of the wash tub and how it reduces hours of pit washing. I washed multiple rugs at the same time (12 ct). After that, I took them out one by one and power washed what was needed to be done for each rug in my curbed wash floor/pit. Some rugs only needed some fringe work with a quick power wash, and others needed other techniques done to them. Then they all went off to the centrifuge for a spin. After that, then went up on our rug hanging poles for a final dry overnight.

One of the visitors admitted that it would have taken him all day to dust and pit wash what we did. Yet we did all this while pausing and talking, in 2 hours!

Picture032_zpsda272f26.jpg


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One of the visitors has been a serious wash floor/pit rug washer for years. It made sense to him what we were doing.
 
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T Monahan

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At Rug Summit 7 Keith Beardslee, a professional rug washer and trained by one of the best in the industry in Colorado, discussed how he saved money and conserved water using the wash tub. We will publish his findings soon. (We may even share the video of his presentation)
 
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T Monahan

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At Rug Summit 7 Keith Beardslee, a professional rug washer and trained by one of the best in the industry in Colorado, discussed how he saved money and conserved water using the wash tub. We will publish his findings soon. (We may even share the video of his presentation)

Here it is:

[video=vimeo;77260583]https://vimeo.com/77260583[/video]
 
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