Solvent Protectors
- Thread starter longjo1
- Start date
Mikey P
Administrator
dont apply at one gallon per square foot no matter what Cobbs tells you.
colin fitch
Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2008
- Messages
- 19
Yes if over applied, to avoid apply less.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
I usually cover 1500sf per gallon over freshly cleaned carpet, so I doubt much gets to the backing. Biggest problem with it was that it melts some plastic chair protectors. Had to replace a few for a local bank.
sweendogg
Member
To answer your original question... I'd like to ask another.. Did you apply it right after cleaning or when it was dry? Solvent protectors should be applied ideally when the carpet is dry as any water left in the carpet will prevent the solvent from carrying the protector to the fiber adequatley. Having said that.... you could have "wrinkled" the carpet with cleaning and the protector may have contributed nothing.
On the other hand.. If you pooled the protector, then you probably delaminated the backing.. not "wrinkled." Anytime you deal with solvent protectors, your better off misting a very thin coat, let it flash off and apply another second thin coat.. or third if need be.
On the other hand.. If you pooled the protector, then you probably delaminated the backing.. not "wrinkled." Anytime you deal with solvent protectors, your better off misting a very thin coat, let it flash off and apply another second thin coat.. or third if need be.
Ron Werner
Member
did this happen to you at a customer's?
What's the story?
What's the story?
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
http://hardballchemical.com/
Cobb also makes a solvent protector. 3M makes one as well, but I seldom see it distributed in our industry.
Thanks,
Lee
Cobb also makes a solvent protector. 3M makes one as well, but I seldom see it distributed in our industry.
Thanks,
Lee
joeynbgky
Supportive Member
I had been using the hardball solvent.. Its great.. But the last 2 orders I used hardballs soil blocker which is not a solvent... I like them both. and you cant beat the scents
daniel@procarpet
Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 3,797
Hardball works great.
What is the best option for applying a solvent protector preferably a pump sprayer?
What is the best option for applying a solvent protector preferably a pump sprayer?
joeynbgky
Supportive Member
danielc said:
LOL We actually agree on something!!!!! Happy turkey day!
I dont like the way the solvent sprays in my pump up... I may need to change the nozzle.. It kinda floats in the air.. Hardball makes those electric sprayers, where their bottle fits right in it..
sweendogg
Member
pump up or I like to use the multisprayer
http://www.jondon.com/catalog/product_i ... c7e47ecdda
for upholstery if I don't have the solvent based aerosol scotchgard with me I'll use a spraymaster bottol on fine mist.
http://www.jondon.com/catalog/product_i ... c7e47ecdda
for upholstery if I don't have the solvent based aerosol scotchgard with me I'll use a spraymaster bottol on fine mist.
sweendogg
Member
I use Masterblend's Solvent Protector for rugs and upholstery.
ruff
Member
Any solvent based protectant leaves unhealthy solvent fumes, off gassing in your clients' home for at least 24 hours.
That should be an issue to be taken into account, as we are also (and should be) the clients' home and health guardian.
If you know that it is unhealthy for a while, you should advice our clients about it and let them make that decision.
I would never use a solvent based protectant on carpet!
And for upholstery, i tell them the drawbacks and let them make that decision.
As professionals it is our duty.
That should be an issue to be taken into account, as we are also (and should be) the clients' home and health guardian.
If you know that it is unhealthy for a while, you should advice our clients about it and let them make that decision.
I would never use a solvent based protectant on carpet!
And for upholstery, i tell them the drawbacks and let them make that decision.
As professionals it is our duty.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I recently just switched all my commercial jobs requiring protector to cobbs ultraseal and up to now no problems. We use a pump up sprayer and Larry hooked me up with a different spray wand/nozzle setup for the sprayer. We mist light coats over just cleaned carpets and I strongly believe it advances the drying of the carpets overall.
You need to be cautious when using a solvent protector but if done right will outlast and out perform the water based protectors by far.
You need to be cautious when using a solvent protector but if done right will outlast and out perform the water based protectors by far.
ruff
Member
1) Why would it make the carpet dry faster?
Unless you mean, as compared to water based, which is true.
2) Any actual proof, that solvent base protectant work better and last longer?
And not by one of these 'independent' laboratories. An actual study done by a party that will not gain financially.
I have not seen one.
3) The health issues are for:
a) The applier- aka you. Multiple exposure through skin (when you get some on your hands etc) and breathing (lungs and airways.) How many
carpet cleaners actually wear gloves and a respirator while doing it, as they should?
b) We are supposed to be guardians for our clients' health, regarding what is used in their home and it's possible effect on their health.
Oh yes, it means possibly making less $$$$
I'd be damned.
Unless you mean, as compared to water based, which is true.
2) Any actual proof, that solvent base protectant work better and last longer?
And not by one of these 'independent' laboratories. An actual study done by a party that will not gain financially.
I have not seen one.
3) The health issues are for:
a) The applier- aka you. Multiple exposure through skin (when you get some on your hands etc) and breathing (lungs and airways.) How many
carpet cleaners actually wear gloves and a respirator while doing it, as they should?
b) We are supposed to be guardians for our clients' health, regarding what is used in their home and it's possible effect on their health.
Oh yes, it means possibly making less $$$$
I'd be damned.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
Yes it dries faster than water based protectors and if you read I only use it on commercial jobs.
I test everything for myself and my test let me know if something works or not. I have been doing one account for about 6 years and have been using water based protectors for most of the time. When I changed to cobbs protector now when they call to clean the carpets I just clean with water no chems and everything comes clean easily. So far now it has held up way better than water based protector. And coverage per gallon is way higher.
I test everything for myself and my test let me know if something works or not. I have been doing one account for about 6 years and have been using water based protectors for most of the time. When I changed to cobbs protector now when they call to clean the carpets I just clean with water no chems and everything comes clean easily. So far now it has held up way better than water based protector. And coverage per gallon is way higher.
ruff
Member
And what?
People who work at commercial places health's is chopped liver?
How long will it take the solvent to actually leave that environment?
People who work at commercial places health's is chopped liver?
How long will it take the solvent to actually leave that environment?
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
All volatile solvents are not the same. People burn millions of gallons more kerosene in their homes than are used in our tiny part of the industry. Still, care is needed to balance risks and benefits.
They displace moisture which usually allows it do evaporate more quickly. I would never use solvents in a situation with poor ventilation or safety issues.
They displace moisture which usually allows it do evaporate more quickly. I would never use solvents in a situation with poor ventilation or safety issues.
ruff
Member
Lee,
Yes, you are right, not all solvents are the same.
I went to Cobb's site and could not find Dynachem's UltraSeal's MSDS info. I assume that like many, the solvent is some petroleum distillant. However, this discussion, as far as I am concerned, is not about Cobb.
It is true that the moisture and in this case the VOC is displaced. However, if I am not mistaken, all the air in a structure has to be replaced within 6 hours. That means
that in that time period it will be present in the entire building. In addition many solvents take longer than 6 hours to completely evaporate.
Add to that the fact that the people who are working where the product was applied may get a much higher exposure than defined by the MSDS and it may mean trouble.
I am also quite sure (can't say with 100% certainty) that:
1) He is not using a respirator which is unhealthy for him.
2) That he never discussed the health issue above with the site manager. I am willing to bet that if he did it would not have been approved. I tried it and the moment that came up it was off the table and no one, say again- No ONE was willing to sign an approval.
So if one employee feels dizzy, or faint, or woozy, guess who are they going to go after. I'll give you a hint- it ain't gonna be the manufacturer that surely covered their asses with lots of small print legal disclaimers. And I am sure that his insurance will not cover his ass either. So, hopefully nothing happens and everything will be honky dory but do not count on it.
In this bulletin Board we spend weeks discussing in minute details if 6 hour of pre-vacuuming is better than 53/4. Yet important health issues for the carpet cleaner and their clients is categorized and bunched under the 'left Coast' craziness and the 'liberal agenda'.
Time to pay attention.
It does matter!
Yes, you are right, not all solvents are the same.
I went to Cobb's site and could not find Dynachem's UltraSeal's MSDS info. I assume that like many, the solvent is some petroleum distillant. However, this discussion, as far as I am concerned, is not about Cobb.
It is true that the moisture and in this case the VOC is displaced. However, if I am not mistaken, all the air in a structure has to be replaced within 6 hours. That means
that in that time period it will be present in the entire building. In addition many solvents take longer than 6 hours to completely evaporate.
Add to that the fact that the people who are working where the product was applied may get a much higher exposure than defined by the MSDS and it may mean trouble.
I am also quite sure (can't say with 100% certainty) that:
1) He is not using a respirator which is unhealthy for him.
2) That he never discussed the health issue above with the site manager. I am willing to bet that if he did it would not have been approved. I tried it and the moment that came up it was off the table and no one, say again- No ONE was willing to sign an approval.
So if one employee feels dizzy, or faint, or woozy, guess who are they going to go after. I'll give you a hint- it ain't gonna be the manufacturer that surely covered their asses with lots of small print legal disclaimers. And I am sure that his insurance will not cover his ass either. So, hopefully nothing happens and everything will be honky dory but do not count on it.
In this bulletin Board we spend weeks discussing in minute details if 6 hour of pre-vacuuming is better than 53/4. Yet important health issues for the carpet cleaner and their clients is categorized and bunched under the 'left Coast' craziness and the 'liberal agenda'.
Time to pay attention.
It does matter!
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
It would be good for carpet cleaners to study a little chemistry to avoid pitfalls of assumptions. There are many hundreds of solvents, and more than half of them are NOT petroleum distillates, for example various alcohols.
There are many safer combinations, "rational substitutions", that are both effective and safer to life and environment. Each case is different.
More people die each year from dihydrogen monoxide than any other "solvent".
Thanks,
Lee
There are many safer combinations, "rational substitutions", that are both effective and safer to life and environment. Each case is different.
More people die each year from dihydrogen monoxide than any other "solvent".
Thanks,
Lee
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
Ofer I both understand and appreciate your concern. I addressed the same concerns with the Chemist and he stated procedures to maximize airflow and minize risk. I still use water based in occupied residential.
Larry Cobb
Member
Ofer;
The main solvent we use in our Dynachem Ultraseal is not the commonly used OMS.
It is selected because it is:
1. Essentially odorless, improving comfort for both workers and customers
2. Quick drying
3. Extremely low aromatic content (0.002%), to minimize risks from exposure
4. Low surface tension for superior surface spreading
The "fluorochemical" has more precautions than the solvent we utilize;
and that applies to water-based protectors as well.
Water-based fluorochemicals DO NOT offer the same level of protection.
Larry
The main solvent we use in our Dynachem Ultraseal is not the commonly used OMS.
It is selected because it is:
1. Essentially odorless, improving comfort for both workers and customers
2. Quick drying
3. Extremely low aromatic content (0.002%), to minimize risks from exposure
4. Low surface tension for superior surface spreading
The "fluorochemical" has more precautions than the solvent we utilize;
and that applies to water-based protectors as well.
Water-based fluorochemicals DO NOT offer the same level of protection.
Larry
Joe Appleby
Supportive Member
Larry,
What's the solvent or carrying agent ?
What's the solvent or carrying agent ?
ruff
Member
Lee Stockwell said:
And does that negate the safety issue, Lee?
More people also die of stupidity related issues.
Should I than stop worrying about what most of us carpet cleaners use and get exposed to on a daily basis.
You know very well that most solvent based protectants use carrying agents that are petroleum distillants. And even if not, we want to know what the other carrying agents are and what are the potential health issues. As I said before this is not about Cobb's specific product and I trust his statement above.
And how about concern for the clients health that are directly related to what we are introducing into their environment.
Should we divorce ourselves as you seem to suggest from any ethical responsibility?
As a moderator and someone who is in a position to be listened to, comes a tiny beat of responsibility. You should at least entertain considering, what are issues that should be of concern to everyone here.
Larry, I went on your site and could not find an MSDS for ultraseal, so I can not tell anything about it.
Your point about less precautions for the carrier than the Fluorochemical raises the excellent issue of their safety.
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/200501 ... ks-answers
http://watoxics.org/chemicals-of-concer ... ounds-pfcs
http://motherjones.com/environment/2007 ... on-forever
http://www.truehealth.org/ahealn43.html
http://www.ewg.org/newsrelease/Bush-Han ... ver-Teflon
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
I stand by my post.
ruff
Member
More like sitting I'd say !dork!
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Be aware that some of that is junk science Kofer. Use care with ANY chemical and read labels.
Thanks,
Lee
Thanks,
Lee
ScientificAtlantic
Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2010
- Messages
- 6
read the labels and instructions before applying it.and it is also safe not to over apply. if there is a guide on how much to apply, then better. but if not...estimate the amount...
ruff
Member
DDT
Vioxx
Agent orange
and the list goes on and on and on
All came with labels and instructions. It didn't help the people who used them or who got exposed to them much.
Did it?
And when complains about these became public were those junk science?
Labels and instructions come from an interested party- the seller. Yes, they have some small legalese letters for liability purposes. However, job number one for them is selling the product.
And if by now, you haven't figured that out Lee, you must have been exposed to too many of these "safe" solvent fumes.
You did inhale didn't you? blowme
Vioxx
Agent orange
and the list goes on and on and on
All came with labels and instructions. It didn't help the people who used them or who got exposed to them much.
Did it?
And when complains about these became public were those junk science?
Labels and instructions come from an interested party- the seller. Yes, they have some small legalese letters for liability purposes. However, job number one for them is selling the product.
And if by now, you haven't figured that out Lee, you must have been exposed to too many of these "safe" solvent fumes.
You did inhale didn't you? blowme
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Good grief Ofer, do you ride a bicycle too?
Do you suggest your customers have dirt floors? (carpet and vct is made from chemicals, wood from killed trees)
...and did you READ my posts?
Thanks,
Lee
Do you suggest your customers have dirt floors? (carpet and vct is made from chemicals, wood from killed trees)
...and did you READ my posts?
Thanks,
Lee
